Tactical Headlines with John McCoy – APR. 18, 2024

About This Episode

Get locked and loaded with this week’s headlines! Wade Saklsky and John McCoy dive into the latest firearms reviews, including the ergonomic and budget-friendly Walther PPQ 22 M2 Pistol. Discover the new Ruger Marlin Models, featuring the sleek Dark 336 in .30-30 and the powerful SBL 1894 in .44. Plus, explore Girsan’s daring showcase at IWA and Celik Arms’ innovative Hi-Power Clone, the FP-14. Don’t miss the all-black elegance of the new Springfield Armory Emissary 1911 Variants!

Insights In This Episode

• Discover the Ergonomic & Affordable Walther PPQ 22 M2 Pistol: A Rimfire Plinker Review (WaltherArms.com)
• Introducing the Latest Ruger Marlin Models: The Stylish Dark 336 in .30-30 and Powerful SBL 1894 in .44 (MarlinFirearms.com)
• Girsan Unleashes its Bold Offerings at IWA: A Showcase of Innovation (Girsan.com)
• Experience Innovation with Celik Arms’ New FP-14: A Hi-Power Clone Revealed (CelikArms.com)
• New All-Black Variants of the Springfield Armory Emissary 1911: Sleek and Sophisticated Designs (Springfield-Armory.com)

About Tactical Business

Tactical Business is the weekly business show for the firearms industry. The podcast features in-depth interviews with the entrepreneurs, professionals and technologists who are enabling the next generation of firearms businesses to innovate and grow.

Episode Transcript

John: Good morning. I’d rather be outside instead of inside today, but talking about guns is a good consolation prize if you’re going.

Wade: To have to be inside on a day like this, it’s definitely one of the things that make it okay to be inside. I agree.

John: Absolutely, but.

Wade: Also I see that you survived the apocalypse yesterday.

John: Oh, just barely just hanging on by a thread.

Wade: So now where you are in Kansas, did you guys get to see any of it? I don’t know, I’m an American, so I don’t know geography. What was. Yeah, it.

John: Was like, uh, 75%. It was still pretty cool. Yeah.

Wade: Because you’re on the other side. We’re on my side. We got the exact same thing. We got about 75, 76%. So did you get the glasses and go out and look at it with the kids and everything.

John: My kids did? I was wearing a welding hood because, well, I’m white trash, so that’s what I did.

Wade: Can you do that? Can you see you experiencing pain right now?

John: No, I can see fine. All right. If you can look at an arc from a welder, then you can look at the sun.

Wade: Yeah. Well, again, I don’t pretend to know anything about welding, so I don’t.

John: That’s good. I know just a little bit more than that.

Wade: Just enough not to burn out your eyeballs.

John: Put a hood on and gloves. There you go. You’re 50% of the way there.

Wade: I’m fired up to talk to you today. We’re going to do some talking about some current events. And let’s start with what we were talking about, the Ruger Marlin situation. What’s going on with that?

John: Ruger procured Marlin maybe a year or two ago. Marlin, of course, has made 22 semi-auto 22 seconds and stuff forever. But then they had the line of basically their Winchester 1894 knockoffs. They look just like it. So the model 336 is their kind of their bread and butter Ruger bottom out, which is probably a good thing. Ruger is a fantastic company. They cover all kinds of bases. There have always been a practical company that produces just great practical stuff. So what we’ve got here is a new take on the traditional model 336, which is a 3030 lever action rifle. It’s the consummate Midwestern deer slayer. And then the other one is the 1894 and 44 Magnum. So it’s a stainless steel, basically a short range brush gun, which is very cool. So these were just the ugliest things you’ve ever seen. So they had this kind of janky adapter to put an M4 style stock on. A model 336 lever gun, and then it had the foregrip like the SIM lock for grip on here. But then they went with the standard A2 birdcage style flash suppressor on the front. It was just the ugliest gun in the universe.

Wade: But would it stop a zombie?

John: I have no idea. I’ve never tested that theory. I assume it would. So this gives me vibes of that. But this is not uncool. This is actually a cool gun. It’s traditional in the sense that it’s a skeletonized stock, and you can see it’s got the triple slots for an AR style sling on there, but it’s also got quick disconnects on the stock and a QD port on the foregrip, which is really cool. I love them, I don’t know if you run those on your AR, but the qd’s are the best thing that anyone ever did for a sling, ever.

Wade: And for reference, we’re looking at Marlin firearms coms where you can find the guns that we’re gonna be talking about. And I think we were talking a little bit offline about like, why would they do this? Yes. You have one view of guns because you have a lot more experience with it. You’ve gone deep on guns in terms of the construction. And that comes, I think, from you being an aircraft mechanic back in the day. You’re on the gearhead side of things. Yes. And so for me, I look at the lever gun and I always think of like old Western Silverado. Like I would not buy a lever gun unless I wanted to just do it for that purpose. So what’s interesting about especially the black version, because it has the M lock on the barrel basically, and then it has the Picatinny rail on top. It looks like it’s got Co-witness sights on it that didn’t have that obviously back in the old timey West times. So why would they do that? And I have a theory. And then what do you think that they wanted to do. What is the reason why that they did this, do you think?

John: Well, okay, so there’s actually two things that I was thinking about. Number one, as a California exile, you’ll understand this lever guns are not scary guns. And they also are obviously they’re always capped on their mag, their internal magazine capacity. So if you are in one of those extremely anti b-2a states, they are a really good compromise. They’re fast, they’re pretty accurate. And the 3030, if you’re in that short to mid range it’s it hits hard and it’s still it’s you know if you ever watched tremors with Kevin Bacon of course. So like if you.

Wade: Think you’re talking John you’re my co-host. Who do you think you’re talking to. Would you ever have a co-host that I have seen tremors and I have seen tremors three, which is due to its descent. Yeah.

John: So they’re in. What’s the name of that town? Perfection, I think. Yeah. The town. So if you’re stuck in perfection, Nevada 3030 is around that. You’re at the gas station. They’re probably going to have a dusty box of 3030 from 1975. Like you can find it anywhere and everywhere. It’s got that great appeal. 3030 is a great round for everywhere. Again, going back to California, it’s actually great for a lot of the game they have there in the mountains, where you might have shorter shots in the brush and trees. So it’s a great platform for those states because it’s not a scary gun.

Wade: I didn’t think about that. That actually is a really good point. Yeah.

John: And we have a mutual friend who is looking at full timing and an AR. They’re legal in most states. Lever guns are great in most states. So if you’re on the road a lot, it’s one that you’re not going to have to worry as much about crossing state line. You can throw it, throw it in the.

Wade: Trunk or wherever you keep it handy. Exactly. Yeah.

John: Now, as far as this goes, we had a discussion about saturation. So it’s like you look at the price point on these and I’m like, wow, when did a marlin 336, which was a $400 Walmart gun ten years ago. How does it go to be a $1,400 mSRP rifle? And like you said, that comes down to market saturation. So you look at the Ars and you’re like, I can pick up an AR for 350 bucks if it’s on sale, but they’re everywhere. So they’re exploring options that are going to be appealing to people while having a lot of interoperability. So with the rails and the M-lok, you can go to your treasure trove of 35 Ars that you keep in your in your vault and pull off all your accessories and put them on here universally.

Wade: And I think that your first point leads into the second point that we were talking about is that if you can’t, if you want to do like in California or something like that, this type of gun, but still be able to put a light on it, still be able to get whatever red dot on it, whatever. Exactly. Because it looks like it’s got cobalt in the sights on it. So like, okay, to me that would defeat the purpose of why I would get this gun and it would be just because I watched Silverado too many times. And so that’s why I want to have I always want to have like a knife boot, a knife in my boot and my cowboy boots and this silver gun on the bottom, because I want to be able to roll around town in a horse and just be like, what’s up? So yeah, but yeah, it’s a they’re cool guns for sure.

John: Practically speaking. Obviously you’re not going to be LARPing as a Silverado gun shooter in the okay corral with the dark model.

Wade: Take it back. You well you could and then the other thing too, to really think about it as well is that yes, it is cool. Yeah. They both look really cool.

John: Like I said, the zombie ones were not cool. You’ll have to google it when it’s worth a Google. It is. Totally check them out and you’ll be like that’s hideous. But this is not this is classy. This looks good.

Wade: With Ruger taking it over. Obviously with Ruger having the 1022, which is like they know how to make a gun that. Will never break. That will work every single time, no matter what you do to it. And that becomes the standard. If you ask somebody, hey, what’s the best 22 I should get? If the person doesn’t tell you a 1022, they’re lying, that they’re either lying or they know some magical trick that I don’t know or they.

John: Know nothing.

Wade: So or they work for somebody that makes a different manufacture. That makes it perfect because 1022 is a great rifle. So they know what they’re doing. On the production side, obviously, I would probably buy the one on the bottom, which is a silver looking one like so I could Larp and you would probably buy the one on the top so you could tinker around with it and put a bunch of crap on it.

John: Well, so here’s the thing. First off, some states have different rules. Like I think Michigan is a straight wall state where they have certain regulations for you can only use straight wall cartridges for deer. It’s weird. That’s where the 350 legend came from for Ars because straight walled. So with the 44 mag, you meet that requirement. And the other cool thing is, what made these so popular is you can get a lot more energy and velocity off of a revolver round so that you don’t have to pack two different types. So yeah, that’s where those actually became popular. They used back in the really old days. The Winchesters used, I think they were 44 40s, and then the 45 long Colt were the original rounds.

Wade: I learned something every time I do this, so that’s awesome.

John: So you think put yourself in the position of an old lawman in Wyatt Earp? It’s much more practical for him to carry only 4440 or a handgun round. But then with the 16 inch barrel, you get a lot more velocity and a lot more reach. But you don’t have to carry two different types of ammo.

Wade: No, I agree with you. That makes perfect. Yeah. And then so yeah, you can again take a look at those at Marlinfirearms.com. Or you want to go next.

John: We’ll talk about the Walther 22 and the Walther PPK 22. I had a Ruger SR 22 which was a double action single action polymer framed 22. And I traded it for something else I don’t even remember. It was and I’ve always kicked myself because it was like a medium frame, a little smaller than a Glock 19, but it handled like a pistol, not like a 22. And I’ve always been ticked at myself for getting rid of that. I’m like, why did I get rid of that? That was such a cool little pistol. So the PK, this has basically it’s the same size and weight and the same grip structure as their nine millimeter PK, which is really handy because 22 Long Rifle, even though it’s gone up in price, is a lot cheaper than nine millimeter, and which is Glock did the same thing with. Was it the 44? It’s the same size as a Glock 19. But you can go out there, buy a brick of 22 for 25 bucks and shoot all day.

Wade: Well, and then so there’s that and then there’s also and you made a really good point about how the grip is the same. So take Glock for example. The Glock 22 goes to the 19 which then goes to the 17. Right because the grip is the same. So for my wife for example, I’m still getting her to shoot. So we’re starting off on 22. Yeah for rifle. But then I could get her something like this. And she once she gets comfortable on the rifle, I’ll say, hey, we’re not going to a big bullet. Same bullet. You’ve been shooting it. So then she’s not stressed about the recoil, but then now she’s getting used to the grip, and she’s getting used to handling it with the same size gun effectively. Except for it’s just shorter on the barrel and then the length, the height. And so it’s a really good progression because then when you bump them up to like the nine millimeter, it’s the same gun, same size. It’s just the it’s just the ammunition is different. So if you have someone that doesn’t want to jump right to the big boy gun, it’s a great place to start.

John: Well, and especially when you’re doing one that’s a clone of the full size so that the trigger break is going to be exactly the same. So it’s going to feel exactly the same because I don’t have that. And I have an old Ruger Mark 1 or 2, which is a great pistol, but it is nothing like shooting my Smith and Wesson MMP. It’s not anything like it at all. So when they make that jump, it’s going to feel completely different. This is a really great thing to to smoothly transition them and it’s just fun. You go out and you shoot with that all day.

Wade: And if you think about it, so what are you trying to accomplish? Right. So for me, I want to be proficient in being able to defend myself with my guns. And I like to shoot, but it’s not something where I’m like, I’m going to go shoot for other than I’m not at that point yet. So every time that I go to shoot, I’m working on my proficiency. Exactly. If you’re mixing and matching the types of guns that you’re doing, then you’re decreasing the amount of reps that you’re getting to be proficient. So when things get hairy and you have that muscle memory to go to, you’re not going to have as many reps. No. Exactly. Now, have you been shooting as long as you have? Then it doesn’t matter, right? But for me, someone like me, it’s like, so I only stick to I’m either shooting a Glock 19 or the Glock 17. That’s it. That’s because they’re the same gun, you know what I mean? So, so so it’s that’s how I look at it. But then again, that’s why I said I really like this type of gun for that reason. Totally. And definitely something for people to think about if they’re going to get their wife or their kid involved in shooting because it’s you can think ahead a little bit. So you’re not having to buy three different platforms. Yep.

John: And I like the fact that it does have the Picatinny rail so that you can actually practice night drills with the same gun, or if you just have someone that’s extremely skittish about recoil, I’d still rather be armed with a 22 than nothing. So if you have if you take your wife.

Wade: If you take a round to the face with the 22, you’re not going to like that.

John: No, it’s not going to be favorable. So I would still rather take a 22 every single day than be unarmed. Yeah, 100%. No question about it.

Wade: Or a knife.

John: Yeah, exactly.

Wade: The fastest way I always tell people the fastest way to be able to get yourself comfortable with carrying a gun every day is just carry a knife every day, because when you’re carrying that night, like, but like, like a tactical knife for the purposes of defending yourself, not a pocket knife, because you’ll be walking around and then something weird will happen. If that guy jumped out and was going to cause a problem and he had a gun, and all he had was this little knife, I would be in trouble. And you start to have those conversations in your head. You’re like, yeah, okay, I’m gonna start carrying a gun around. Yeah.

John: No, that’s you’re absolutely right. Totally right.

Wade: Tactical knife is the gateway drug to.

John: It is definitely a gateway drug.

Wade: And then how do you feel about Walters in general? So German gun obviously it’s like a I would say it’s in the elite category in terms of perception. Right. Because I’ve actually never even I don’t even think I’ve ever shot one.

John: I’ve never shot one either. But I haven’t not read any bad reviews on them. Now, I don’t know how their ownership lineage, where it is right now because Smith and Wesson had an owner’s stake in them for a while, is in the late 90s, but I have read a number of reviews on the pqs and enough to make me think I could consider buying one. But as I have an addiction to old tractors so my money goes there instead. We’ll have.

Wade: Our battles. Yeah.

John: But I haven’t ever really read a bad thing about them. Everyone says their ergonomics are fantastic.

Wade: So there’s two things I like about this gun that I’m looking at it, and there’s one thing I like and one thing I don’t like. I like that when on the inscription where it says Carl Walther Germany, but then I don’t like on the handle of the gun that they have the PK as part of the trade dress on the actual handle. Yes. Whereas why would you do that? Does that seems like that’s going to mess up the grip. That annoys me. Don’t do that. There do that. So nice.

John: Springfield did that with one of their xd-s and they they stamped grip zone on there. I’m like that is there’s.

Wade: An indentation there. It makes it so it’s not a full grip there. Why would you do that? What is the bottom part of my hand supposed to do there?

John: I have no idea. Maybe it.

Wade: Makes it. I’ve never shot it, so I can’t. I’m not complaining. I’m just saying it befuddles me. And that’s one of the many things that befuddle me sometimes. Yeah. And so what you could do is go to WaltherArms.com if you want to look at that. But it is a pretty cool looking gun. It is. And the.

John: Review is glowing so.

Wade: I’m sure. Well they know what they’re doing over there right. Yes. So it’s not their first rodeo. No.

John: Definitely not.

Wade: All right. We want to go next.

John: Let’s talk Girsan because every time I see them I want I have no idea.

Wade: Who that is. Oh wrong link. Delete. Delete.

John: All right. Said I think we had 2 or 3 articles. We were looking at stuff the ID iwa outdoor classic shows. So Girsan is a and they are in conjunction with EAA who has been around for a long time. Girsan is a they are a Turkish brand, their first major imports. I started seeing these at least a decade ago. They were 1911 clones. The sub $400 market looked really classy. They now have a slew of Beretta clones and listed in 2002. And I was M9 qualified and I hated the M9. I know there’s a bunch of purists that like them, I hated them. Yeah. So it’s I always found them to be completely unpredictable where the brass is going to go. If you shoot a Glock or any other gun has an ejecting port, it always goes to the right Beretta’s don’t have that. And they also have fixed barrel. It’s a weird thing and when you shoot them, I was always getting brass going down my BDU top and you’re like, this pisses me off. But there’s something about them. The Beretta 92 clones are slick. And have you looked at these yet? So they’ve got like the cartel member version. That’s like ivory grips and gold mints. It’s so gaudy that I want one. I have no practical use for it, but I would definitely open carry that just because. And they they call this one the Florida man edition. It’s Snow White. The frame is Snow white. The grips are snow white. The slide is snow white, the barrel the safety switch, the hammer, the trigger and the mag releases. And all the hardware is gold.

Wade: It’s the wild side, of course.

John: So, Gordy, I want one. I have no reason besides the fact that it’s obnoxious that I want one.

Wade: Well, if you open carry, then it definitely draws people’s attention to it. So you’ll let people know that you’re.

John: And that’s the rule number one of open carry is you want to draw a lot of attention, a lot of attention.

Wade: Yeah. And then obviously if you’re a concealed carry when you are on the draw, the shininess will distract your opponent to where they will be. Like, what is that? And it’s too late. So they’ll be like, yeah, they’ll be like, is it because they won’t be able to tell if it’s a gun or not? They’re like, is it?

John: They’re blinded? It’s actually it’s like looking into the eclipse.

Wade: They’re blinded by the light. Now for me it has a thumb safety. Right. So that’s why on the Glock it’s like pull it out and start shooting. So I don’t want to add another level of complexity with the thumb safety, but that is just me. So obviously there’s always the debate versus external safety or not. And I understand why people have that debate. But I come down on the Glock side. So how are you on the thumb safety? Are you a fan of the thumb safety? Does it not bother you like.

John: I don’t like it?

Wade: You don’t like it? Don’t like it? Why don’t you like it?

John: Just because it’s one more thing. Glock has this down to a science. And of course it works because everyone else copies it, so it doesn’t do anything but hinder you more than anything. So like the Beretta 92. So your first pole is like £12, £13, and then the one after that is like £3. And it’s hard to get used to that because that first shot, your tendency is to pull because it’s so heavy. It’s like the pull to the right. If you’re right handed, are you left handed?

Wade: I’m right handed.

John: Okay. All right. I don’t know why I thought you were a southpaw anyway.

Wade: Because I’m a creative genius.

John: That’s right. That’s what it was. And it’s because.

Wade: I’m a writer. I write for a living. So everyone’s like, oh, he must be a creative genius. Lefty.

John: Yep. So. But it’s just there because that’s what Beretta 92 had. So I’m not a big fan of it. I have no reason to have one. I just like the fact that they’re so gaudy. Again, I have no reason to carry one whatsoever.

Wade: Well, again too, and it’s a different it’s a it’s the firearm stance is very big. So I’m not the consumer for this type of gun for that exact reason. I don’t have the reps on firearms in that I can I can mess around with different things. Right. So I want like some like locks or same trigger pressure. Same for shot. Second shot doesn’t matter. Everything is exactly the same. I don’t have an external safety because if I’m on a rocket EDC then concealed, then when I’m on the draw, I don’t want there to be anything extra that could catch on something, because it’s not like I have the cleanest draw in the history of time either, like limbs akimbo sometimes. So. And then I don’t want something extra to do. I want to do. I want to do three things. I want to draw. I want to acquire the sights. Then I want to pull the trigger. That’s it. That to me is like the quickest to defend myself. But not everyone is like me. So if you can rock your self-defense options and you want to start exploring like this, I totally understand why someone would dig that gun. I think it’s awesome. So I’m not. I never want anyone to think that I’m bagging on it. I’m not.

Wade: It’s just I’m not in the. And I may be there one day, like five years from now and be like, oh my God, check this out. So I get it. Legos. You got to be able to mix and match and you have different moods. And that’s a comfort level two thing. Like if you once it becomes second nature for you, then I think it’s like clothing. Right. So like suits were like this when I used to go to court, when I started to go to court as a lawyer, because I was in court every day for 16 years. Yep. Blue black didn’t rock any brown suits, didn’t do any seersucker suits. But then after a few years, I started to get squirrely. And I got real comfortable in court and everybody knew me. I got started to get a little squirrely with the wardrobe choices. You went, yeah, well, not that much, but I just got bored. I just got bored wearing the same suit to court every day. And so that’s basically that is the exact same concept of firearms. And so when people so you’ll have people that don’t understand guns and they’ll be like, well, why would you get this Florida man gun. It doesn’t. Well that’s why it’s because they because I want it.

John: That’s what to get it.

Wade: Yeah because I want it. I get to do whatever I want.

John: Exactly. Now one thing I will say is I really am dangerously close to getting a Browning Hi-Power knockoff. And they have one. I wouldn’t get the one with the gold accoutrements on it.

Wade: Girsan has it.

John: Yeah, they got it. And then the next one I think we’re going to talk about also has one. There’s a lot of companies. I know that Springfield is like the first one that kind of broke the seal, but there’s a number of. Turkish Browning clones now, and I really do like those. So that might be one that that ends up in my safe here in the near future. What’s that called? Uh, it’s just a grip. Grip plate.

Wade: Oh, the grip plate. So I was looking at. Do you follow mallet CNC works on? Uh, yes, I do Twitter, so he. Let’s give him a free plug just because he’s awesome. So on Twitter you can find him at mallet CNC works. So he makes wood grip plates like that. Have you seen some of those things that he. Yes I have does. And you would think, oh it’s just wood. It’s not like it’s pearl or anything like that. But some of those things he does are so dope.

John: Oh yeah. Some of the ones they call them laminates. And that is one thing. Okay, that is severely lacking from the polymer design is that you just can’t do anything cool with it. Like, are they reliable? Of course they are. But like, you’re just stuck with Tupperware. That’s what you’re they’re not aesthetically pleasing. But there is something about a alloy or a steel framed pistol where you can swat like 1911. There’s a billion different grip plate options all over. If you want something ergonomic like Pock Meyers or like Hogue’s, or like I think even, uh, magpul makes them. You want to go something like that? That’s great. But if you want something, you want Rosewood, or you want just any number of other things, you can add some flair there. So because as people in the gun community know, like it’s not just about practicality, it’s about aesthetics.

Wade: Well, and this is the whole hunting argument I always get into. It’s like it’s the harvesting of the animals, almost 2%, 5% of the whole thing. It’s totally.

John: Secondary.

Wade: Yeah. People think it’s and that’s the thing that I think that people don’t ever understand about firearms. Is that right? Is that everyone thinks it’s like the whole point of a firearm is to kill something, and the aesthetic that’s around it is part of it, the culture around it, that’s part of it. The ability of being self-reliant is part of it. And out of all of those things that you can take a craftsman approach to firearms and in doing so, a craftsman, if you make cabinets, for example, you may have a or a like a good example is a chef, right. Like I use I got into cooking for a while and so I took some cooking classes. And there is a very distinct difference aesthetically between the different types of knives. So you can do a German knife, you can do a Japanese knife or like whatever. And I think if we in the firearms community could get people to understand that, I think it would start to open some doors as to get them to help to be like, oh, okay, this is more than just point gun go boom.

John: Yeah, exactly. If that’s what if that’s your whole take on it, get a Glock. Like seriously get a Glock.

Wade: But there is beauty. There is no I will push back on this as a Glock person. There is beauty in this thing that I know that no matter what I do to it, as long as I clean it once every three years, it will do what I ask it to do. It is dependable and there’s beauty in that. That’s true. It’s not an aesthetics beauty. It can be aesthetics, but it’s aesthetics because of its because of its utility. Because utility is beautiful too.

John: Yeah. Especially when it’s reliable.

Wade: Well, think about it. And this I’ll go back to the cooking example. Think about a cast iron skillet. Oh yeah. That thing is ugly as hell, right? Yes. It’s just a big block of cast iron. Right. So I’ve got a large cast iron skillet. And like, this morning I made pancakes on it and I just left it there. And then I was like, oh, I’m gonna make some eggs. And so I didn’t even clean it. I just made eggs. And the thing is, like, you can bury it on the ground for a year, pick it up, dust it off, cook it. It will work again. There’s like, there’s a there’s a beauty to that. Totally. There’s a depth to it from something so simple. So take it back to Tupperware. Remark about the Glock because I disagree with you.

John: Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. We’ll agree to disagree.

Wade: Yes, exactly. This episode is brought to you by TacticalPay.com. Every few years, it seems large banks and national credit card processors suddenly decide that they no longer want to process payments for firearms and firearms related businesses, and so they drop these businesses with almost no notice, freezing tens of thousands of dollars in payments for months on end. If you want to ensure your partner with a payments provider that is dedicated to supporting the firearms industry, or you just want to find out if you could be paying less for your ACH, debit and credit card processing, visit TacticalPay.com. Again, that’s TacticalPay.com. All right. Anything else that you want to say about going on the wild side with the Girsan.com? And actually, I think this is the second Turkish gun that we’ve talked about in a bit.

John: We’re getting ready to talk about another one.

Wade: I know, but I it’s good for me because I never really think about turkey as a, as a in terms of for producing guns.

John: Oh it’s huge. It’s been huge forever.

Wade: Yeah. Well I think Germany obviously.

John: Germany is but Turkey has been especially like in shotguns. Oh for eons. Turkey is huge gun man.

Wade: So I’ll give you one guess who makes a shotgun that I have?

John: Mossberg. Yeah, of.

Wade: Course I got a musket. I have a mossberg tactical shotgun. That’s. That thing is, it’s not like.

John: You could possibly go wrong with a 500. Ever. I have a Remington 870, so it’s like I’m never going to buy a different shotgun. I just have this one that we bought at Walmart when I was like 16. And why would I? It’s one of those things like, why would I upgrade it? Why would I change the shotgun that I use ever?

Wade: That’s a scary looking gun.

John: Yeah.

Wade: It’s because if you look at the if you get like the traditional shotgun, which is the like you would buy out of the Sears catalog in the 1800s or 1900s or whatever. So, yeah, like you. So someone pulls that bad boy out like, yeah, it’s a gun. And I’d be frightened by that. But it’s like, oh, it’s an old timey shotgun. But you pull out that Mossberg tactical, it’s like it’s a scary looking. It’s the same gun though. Just shooting 12 gauge buckshot off it. Same round. Yep. I love that gun. I’m so flood with that gun though.

John: Hey, you know what? It works.

Wade: It definitely works. I don’t want to brag again how accurate I am with that gun, because it seems every time I’m sure people who listen to the podcast are die hard. Fans are like, oh wait, he’s going to talk about a shotgun again.

John: It’s talking about accuracy with a shotgun.

Wade: All right, where are we going next?

John: All right, let’s go with the Celik.

Wade: I’m surprised you haven’t gone down to the 1911. You talking about being a fudd? You 1911 lover.

John: I’m not a 1911 lover. I there’s a part of me that likes them, but I would never stop getting defensive.

Wade: You are a secret, closeted 1911 lover. I know. All right, all right, let’s talk about this. Celik.

John: All right, so I had. This is another.

Wade: Hold on. Before we go there, though, let’s make sure we talk. So Celikarms.com c e l I k arms com. Celikarms.com. Yep.

John: I’m for sure saying it wrong because it’s got the little accent under the C. It’s another Turkish company. It is another. It’s another Browning Hi-Power clone. It looks just like Girsan’s because it’s probably is made in the same factory. These are both Turkish high powers.

Wade: Let’s talk about aesthetics. So there’s a big difference aesthetically between these two guns, right? Yeah. Step one is more modern. We’re going to make it look like a slushie. And then this gun that we’re looking at the Celik side of things, they have some like, look at this engraving on this one here. I saw.

John: That it’s.

Wade: Nice. Very nice. That is nice. Like, that’s old school. That is like a great get like you’re in The Great Gatsby novel and you’re whipping that out, right.

John: Had to do that.

Wade: Your favorite novel. Everybody knows that you love 1911 and Great Gatsby. That’s your fantasy is to be transported in The Great Gatsby with a 1911 to defend yourself.

John: I applaud. All right. So anyway, not true. Uh, true, not true. So I like this, I dig it, I really do want one. It’ll I probably have 4 or 5 unnecessary farm purchases before this, but I definitely dig it now. I think with this, with the high power, I’m going to have to be a traditionalist. I like the plain stainless steel with the black grip when you start. They call it peanut butter, which I like one on the bottom. It’s a flat, dark, earth ish peanut butter ish. Yeah, the odd green. Not a fan, but I do like the fact that they all have the fiber optic front sight. I dig that, I love those, absolutely love those.

Wade: You’ve seen my PSA dagger, right? Yes. It’s got a I got the odd green on it. The sniper green. Yeah. It looks nice. It actually ended up looking a lot nicer than I thought it was. It’s pretty dope again though.

John: It’s a Tupperware gun. This is a all metal gun. So I just have. There’s a part of me that. And I don’t have anything against Tupperware guns, I own several, I love them, they are great in what they are. I just wouldn’t look at them for like, I wouldn’t just stare at them and enjoy them. But again.

Wade: But again, to me it’s like we’re talking about the utility. It’s like it’s just the fact. Because again, it’s your comfort level of firearms. Like if you can’t cook and then you learn how to make cornbread and you learn how to make do a steak, and you learn how to make a cobbler and a cast iron skillet to you, you’re like, this is the best thing that’s ever happened to me. And I love this cast iron skillet. But that’s an entry level belief. And so like changing it up to like from the the gun metal to the green is like, oh, but then when you’ve been doing it for 100 years, you’re like, I can see why you have that view. So the nice thing about us is that we’re to the two ends of the spectrum. So normal people like me come in and be like, oh, that’s so awesome. You’re like, yes, and I can be friends with them. And then all the people who love want to be transported into Great Gatsby and want to have a 1911 like, you can make fun of me. So there you go. You gave me a weakness. Man never showed this.

John: Chink in my armor right there.

Wade: So yeah. So yeah, I actually don’t like the green on that because the way that green looks in there, it just doesn’t look right.

John: A stainless or the two tone looks great or just plain blued.

Wade: And some of these wood plates that they have on there look pretty sweet. Yes. Like the Turkish walnut grip. So this is something I. Get into, right. The guns made in Turkey and then the walnut plate is Turkish walnut. That’s cool. Now, that is an aesthetic. I’m like, yeah, look at this. It’s like when you’re explaining it to someone like, this gun is from Turkey. The wood plate is Turkish wood, you know what I mean? And that’s actually would be cool to explain.

John: Definitely, I dig it. What’s the price point? I couldn’t find him. The website doesn’t have. It’s not super populated yet, so I’m guessing maybe it’s a fairly new edition. And I checked out buds, which is where I always do to get a realistic price point. And they don’t carry the brand yet, so doesn’t mean they won’t just means it’s not there right now.

Wade: Keep talking about something when I look for this something. Okay, here we go. All right. Never mind then. I can’t find it either. I was going to just dunk on you, be like, here is for. Yeah, like I said, go ahead.

John: And actually, technically I use Google as a generic tum. I was using DuckDuckGo if you need to know. Oh, I couldn’t find much on it. So I’m guessing since this is a fairly new article. Yeah, it’s a very new article.

Wade: They probably create the demand for it before they drop it.

John: Yeah, I’m guessing they haven’t really started coming across the the pond yet, but they will. So once they actually start hitting shelves we’ll know this.

Wade: Type of gun. It strikes me as is almost like you would have one of these as a ceremonial gun, you know what I mean? Like if you were to have a dress uniform or something and you would have this type of gun and it would be for that purpose, right? Totally. Or as a gift like these would be cool. Like this guy on top here with the inlay like.

John: Oh yeah, that’d be.

Wade: You got a gift. That is a gift. Someone gave that to you as a gift. It would create it as a although if you can see in that gun. It’s so funny. They have the night sights on that gun. Can you.

John: See? I know I saw.

Wade: That, yeah. It’s like I was like, bro, like, you’re gonna have this beautiful inlay and this walnut and you’re gonna put a neon night sight on there. I know, dude.

John: I saw that. Come on now, that’s all right. Don’t cross streams. No, totally agree with that. And then, like you said, our next one is a fudge gun.

Wade: Here we go. Is your favorite.

John: They’re not my favorite or my least favorite. They just are. The nice thing about a 1911 is if you’re out of ammo, you have a very reliable hammer because it’s like 45oz or whatever of milled steel. So this is this one’s pretty slick. All right. I will say, aesthetically speaking, which.

Wade: One are you saying? You think this is slick? Aesthetically, this makes it look like this is, uh, like an a tenderized meat with this thing with that handle. It does. It does.

John: Look like a meat.

Wade: Like a meat tenderizer.

John: You know what? I hadn’t thought of that, but it really does. I like the trigger.

Wade: This is oh, it’s like. Yeah, the solid like that. Yeah. But the thing I worry about with a solid trigger like that is getting dust and debris in there, right? That’s true. Because if you if there’s contact and friction throughout the entire trigger, you’re going to have some issues if you get a liquid on there. So for example, if you spill something on it, that trigger is going to pull all that liquid into the back.

John: Yes, it is.

Wade: Back into the thingy.

John: That’s my back in the thingy. That’s a.

Wade: Good thing. No, this actually is a scary looking gun. I like it, actually. I take it back, I like this, I’m.

John: A big fan of the sights. I actually have a u dot on my MMP, a brand that I was writing for a long time ago, sent me complimentary sights. That’s why I suggest everyone should write for gun companies because they send swag. All right, that’s just the truth.

Wade: I have more holsters than I have guns.

John: So consider them on notice. All right. But seriously though, I will.

Wade: Send them a letter.

John: A strongly worded letter. So I actually have you u-channel sights like the ones that are on the emissary here on my mp40. Yes, I still keep a 40 because I bought it years ago and I’m too lazy to sell it.

Wade: And that hammer design is.

John: Cool because.

Wade: It’s I don’t know what that’s called. Was that do you know what that’s called? Just a loop hammer? Yeah. It’s just make it up. Yeah. Most of the time the hammer has it, it has the skeletonized.

John: It’s in the it’s in the description on one of the oh a skeletonized hammer.

Wade: Well yeah. Because most of the time when a hammer it curves up so you can hook your thumb over it. And so but this one seems like you’d be able to almost do it faster because you could just pull that bad boy down. Probably. I mean, the front pad or the side like that. Probably.

John: It doesn’t really matter because everyone carries their 19 elevens cocked anyway. So it’s whatever because it’s got the duals. Yeah. I’m serious.

Wade: Oh, yeah. Dude, I don’t know anything about 1911. Yeah, it’s.

John: Very standard because you have the there is the thumb safety and then there’s the grip safety on the back that your, the web of your thumb depresses. So it’s a very standard way of carrying 19 elevens. Well yeah.

Wade: Well that’s how I would probably carry it I like it like I said with the Glocks like ready to rock.

John: That is actually totally normal.

Wade: And what’s a big gun? Because it’s not flush with the gun because there’s a gigantic like, I don’t know, looks like a lot of space there. Um, which for me is would create a problem for me loading it. Right. Because you have to be more precise, if there’s because the whole bottom of the gun is open when you’re slapping it in there, you can miss and guide it in. But that seems to be a you got to be more precise. It must be a big handle.

John: I do like the fact that they call the grip pattern is grenade pattern grips. I really rather like that. So anyway, I was saying about the sights the company I was writing for.

Wade: We’re just going to skip my whole thing about the magazine. You’re not going to address it? Oh, I’m.

John: Blowing right over.

Wade: It. Was it silly? Is that what I said? You got to call me on it so people be like, that’s a dumb statement. Ever heard to me?

John: No, you’re dead on. You’re analysis was perfect. All right.

Wade: Good. Move on, then, to the sights I.

John: I really like them, so I have them. The ones I have though are they’re a more rectangular. They’re not the rounded U. But there’s something about that that the outline of that on the rear sight when you pair it up with, I have a tritium front sight on my MMP and it’s I love it. Instead of the kind of standard three dot the you you you sight is great. I really like it. Um, yeah. With the white outline. That’s what mine has. And it’s a really great it really is great. These are this is like a premium line. It looks like their street prices are in the 12 to $1300 price point. So this is not for the faint of heart. But if you got well this would.

Wade: Be and this would be an open carry gun you would have a hard time.

John: So 19 elevens are really slim though. They’re really heavy because they’re all steel but they’re very narrow. Single stack. Yeah. Oh yeah, they’re really narrow especially I think a lot of.

Wade: People conceal carry in 1911.

John: No, they open carry em because they want everyone to see that.

Wade: Oh that they have a nice 11. Yeah. Okay.

John: Yeah I see it all the time at Walmart here in the great Midwest. And actually I’m serious, I see a lot of people open carrying 19 elevens, but they’re not that inherently hard to conceal except for they’re going to pull your pants down because they’re so heavy. But they are. There are pretty narrow.

Wade: You just got to get a better belt.

John: Yes.

Wade: So yeah, I like the sight suit because I might tinker around with sites like this because I have my sights with three dots, but because I have a hard time acquiring the sites because I have bad eyesight, just generally. And then I’m also left eye dominant. So it’s not it takes longer for me to be able to acquire the sight, because instead of going straight on, lifting it straight up, I have to come up and over and it wouldn’t seem like that make a difference. But for me at least, it caught sight. Acquisition is and I like this idea of tinkering with this. I might get these and tinker with this.

John: You should check them out. I really like that sight profile. The three dot is fine, but the u dot is really fast. I really like it.

Wade: That is a good looking gun. I’m gonna. Like I said, this would be something and I’ll probably go shoot it some once I start getting to shoot a lot different stuff, but that is a good looking gun.

John: It is totally it is. I’m definitely not the place where that’s going to be a price point that I’d consider just because I have other things to waste money on.

Wade: But once we get picked up, once this podcast gets picked up nationally and we’re raking the dough, I won’t.

John: Even think about it. Be like, send me to be like, let me three.

Wade: They’ll send it to us.

John: It’s true.

Wade: Except for me. They’ll be like, this is for John, not for Wade. Wade was banging on the flat faced, solid body trigger. Wade can go F himself. Yeah. You’re going to be bringing a message with that thing? Yes.

John: I think we covered everything. What kind of round is this?

Wade: Shoot.

John: Oh, it’s 45. 45.

Wade: Okay. Yeah, yeah. Are all 19 elevens a 45?

John: Nope. There are nine millimeters. Then there are a number. Okay. This one actually is chambered in either 9 or 45 nine millimeter.

Wade: Yeah I see it.

John: And then 38 super is is not uncommon. So it is I believe without looking it up. So nine millimetres Parabellum is nine by 19 millimeter. So 19 millimeter long case I believe the 38 super is nine by 21. So it’s just a little bit spicier. But it’s at the same use the same bullet but it’s a longer case more. And then the ten millimeter is fairly common in the 1911 as well.

Wade: So oh here’s the 1911. They put a light on it. I’ve actually never seen a 1911 with a light on it. Yep. No, I know you could obviously, but in all the like magazines and things I’ve ever looked at, that’s the first because it’s like it’s an old walking me through a little bit because maybe there’s somebody like me who’s like, I don’t even know anything about the 1911. Like, do you know anything about the history of the gun, about where it came from or what’s the. Well, tell me, because I don’t. Okay.

John: So John Browning designed it. Uh, up until the beginning of the night, the 20th century revolvers were obviously dominant. The 38 Smith and Wesson, I believe it’s before the 38 special was the standard sidearm. Pretty. It was not. It’s ballistics were crappy. I think most of them are not even 200 foot pounds of energy for the 38. And they were looking for something that had more power. And this is the United States Army. So the.

Wade: Army it started in the army in 1911 is the army sidearm that I’m thinking about from like.

John: Yeah, they used them until 1981.

Wade: Basically.

John: Yeah, they used them until 19. Now, I’m not Wikipedia any of this. I believe the it was replaced by the M9 in 1985.

Wade: So like in the movie we were soldiers, right where Sam Elliott is sitting there and he’s like, doesn’t have an M16. Yeah, that’s the gun that he had. That’s what I thought this big giant gun was like. Yes.

John: The standard sidearm from. So it actually was adopted I believe in 19 ish. So it was used in World War one two Korea, Vietnam. And then it didn’t make the cut for Iraq part one. The M9 had already replaced it, but still it was used for eons. A lot of air crewmen still carried like snubnosed revolvers, just lighter and easier to pack, but basically ground pounders, particularly in Asia, in the Pacific. Refused to use the 38 caliber revolvers because when Japanese troops would get all sauced up on plum wine, it wouldn’t stop them. So the 45 ACP would. So that’s a very nutshell, but it was around for about 70 years as well.

Wade: And and I can see the appeal of it with the history of it because like, it’s like the it’s the culturally right. It has roots in our country. Like that is an American gun with an American history. And I can see why you’d want to rock one of those. Now, see, now knowing that now all of a sudden I’m like, well, maybe I want to rock. A 1911 version.

John: Which we just talked about a few minutes ago, has some very affordable ones, especially if you want a GI model.

Wade: So what is the according to Hoyle? Is it Springfield? Is that who makes it the 19 the actual 1911? No. That’s Colt. Colt okay, so Colt and they still make them. Oh, yeah. So if you wanted to rock, like what your grandpappy was rocking back in the day, that would be a Colt 1911. Yes. So you look at that.

John: So ACP is automatic Colt pistol. So 32 ACP, 380 ACP, 45 ACP.

Wade: The more you know. Yep. I want you to imagine a star going across. Doo doo doo doo. Yes. You know. Yes. That if they know something, you must know it, right? So take Cerakote, for example. No clue. What that. No clue what that was till about a month ago.

John: Cerakote is magic. It’s magic dust, basically.

Wade: Yeah, well, it sounds like it. Somehow you apply something to the metal that makes it last a really long time, but doesn’t impact any of the actual friction mechanics of the metal.

John: It’s pretty impervious to heat and all kinds of other stuff. It’s pretty awesome. It seems like if you ever have to repair the bluing cold bluing on a older blued firearm, you’ll appreciate cerakote even more. I don’t know how to say it anyway. John, don’t ever cold blue a gun.

Wade: Is it? Is it cerakote or cerakote?

John: Is it cerakote I don’t know.

Wade: Well, you could say it like mesquite. Oh, can you hear me?

John: Yeah, I can hear you.

Wade: Okay. My default microphone changed to something. Well, yeah, because you could say it like creosote. Right. It’s the same smell, like same kind of spelling.

John: And it’s actually was used I believe that it was actually adopted to firearms. It was actually a it was an automotive thing because a lot of components like you would want to coat high temperature items. So it’s a ceramic coating. And so like engine components and things like that. And they’re like, well, hell, if it works for an engine, it’ll work for a gun. And they’re right. I’ll work on that. I’ll immerse myself every.

Wade: Before, every time we talk. I want you to be thinking to yourself is like, what random firearms question is Wade going to ask me today? Let’s check the.

John: Website. I still bat at least 330.

Wade: Oh, easy. You’re oh, you’re hitting 90% of the stuff I ask you. All right, so the website is Springfieldarmory.com. And there’s actually a lot of other cool stuff on there too. There’s some cool looking like M1 Garand looking like guns on there too.

John: Oh yeah, the M1 A’s.

Wade: Yeah. All right, man, anything else you want to talk about before we close up shop this week?

John: I don’t think so. I think we had a very a nice array of stuff. I liked our topics.

Wade: Oh, I learned about that. I’m gonna have to go shoot a 1911 now. Probably. Watch me next time we talk. I bought 1911. It’s gonna, you’re gonna.

John: Have you’re gonna have a whole collection on the wall behind.

Wade: I’m gonna open carry that bad boy, I love it. Or all of a sudden, like, here’s my grandpappy. I didn’t know this, but this. My dad had this 1911 for my great grandpappy in the war. I just sprayed some cerakote on it.

John: Oh, no. No, I’m.

Wade: Not gonna open carry it to my Great Gatsby reading.

John: Oh, my gosh, your favorite book? Yeah, it is not my favorite book.

Wade: People You hate. I’ve never heard someone express more hate for a book than you have of the book of The Great Gatsby.

John: It’s because it represents something I despise, which is public school teachers, every.

Wade: Ap, English.

John: Every.

Wade: Makes you read the single.

John: One. I’m like, if you guys never read anything else, like really? Have you never read anything else? Any other classic literature that actually is good?

Wade: Mice of men. Mice and men.

John: Yeah. No. The catalog it.

Wade: Was it would go ape English mice and men.

John: Yeah.

Wade: Great Gatsby.

John: Grapes of Wrath. You throw that one in there.

Wade: Yeah. Well, you’re gonna do Grapes of Wrath of Mice and Men. You probably don’t do both.

John: That’s true. That is.

Wade: True. So. And then catcher in the Rye.

John: Of course.

Wade: Naturally, those three. And none of those are really good books.

John: Well, no they’re not.

Wade: But Mice of Man is like, so slow.

John: Yeah. You’re like okay, come on.

Wade: Dude, kill the rabbit. Okay. All right brother. Well, I appreciate you. I think that was really great. And like I said, next time we talk random test on something, get to work. All right.

John: That only covers like 14 million different guns I need to study up on.

Wade: I’ll give you a time period. It’ll be a gun. But from sometime between 1600 and 2020, that’s your timeframe. All right, brother, we’ll talk. You’ve been listening to the Tactical Business Show by TacticalPay.com. Join us again next episode as we explore what it takes to be a business success in the firearms industry.