Tactical Headlines with John McCoy – JUL. 4, 2024

About This Episode

In this episode, we dive into the latest advancements in optics and tactical gear! Explore ZeroTech Optics’ new 5-30×56 Trace Advanced Scopes, FN EVOLYS’ ergonomic upgrades based on user feedback, and the fun Safariland Limited Edition Chocolate Chip 6000 Holsters. Plus, discover Wilcox’s Micro Range Finder for German Special Forces and Vortex Optics’ new Viper HD Scopes. Stay tuned for an in-depth look at these innovative products and their potential impact on the field!

Insights In This Episode

• ZeroTech Unveils 5-30×56 Trace Advanced Scopes. (ZeroTech)
• FN EVOLYS: User-Driven Ergonomic Enhancements. (FN Firearms)
• Sweet Gear: Safariland’s Chocolate Chip 6000 Holsters. (Safariland)
• Wilcox Micro Range Finder Joins German Special Forces. (Wilcox Industries)
• Vortex Optics Launches New Viper HD Scopes. (Vortex Optics)

About Tactical Business

Tactical Business is the weekly business show for the firearms industry. The podcast features in-depth interviews with the entrepreneurs, professionals and technologists who are enabling the next generation of firearms businesses to innovate and grow.

Episode Transcript

Wade: Welcome to the Tactical Business Show. I’m your host, Virginia Beach based firearms entrepreneur and copywriter Wade Skalsky. Each episode will be exploring what it takes to thrive as a business owner in the firearms industry. We’ll speak with successful firearms industry entrepreneurs about their experiences building their companies, leaders and legislators who are shaping the industry, and tech executives whose innovations will reshape the future of the firearms industry. Let’s get after it. Welcome to the Tactical Business Podcast. I am your host, Wade Skalsky. And today we’re going to be a little more casual with one of our talking about current events and what’s going on with my sometimes co-host, but always rocking the awesome beard. John McCoy. John, how are you doing?

John: I’m good. Wade, how are you doing?

Wade: I’m really good. I missed you, man. You were tooling around with the family and at parts unknown, you were traveling man. How did that work out for you?

John: It was, as I always hope, when I’m telling a 37 foot RV. It was almost completely uneventful. We had one blowout, which I always predict at least one trailer tire going, and it was five miles from our second stop like we were. We almost could see the gate. Thank God it happened because I’d actually just driven through Fort Worth. So we’re like right outside the gate and wife’s like, did you hear that? I’m like, no. And she’s like, I think you blew a tire. I’m like, I don’t think so. So she’s like, well, just pull over and check. And I did. And of course it had absolutely blown a tire. So yeah. Uh, besides that, very uneventful. We went to first stop was south of Fort Worth, Little Lake called Lake Whitney, south and West, and we were there for a few days. Then we went to Texoma, which is one of our favorite places, right on the Red River. And then we ended up around Tulsa, Oklahoma, as always, very colorful. And then we came home two days ago.

Wade: So you keep telling me, send me these telegram things where there’s like a pack of wild dogs terrorizing the campground.

John: Okay, now, this is a real story. Yes. Well, I said, Oklahoma’s always colorful. This whole trip was revolved around a wedding in Guthrie, and. But we have friends in Tulsa, and we’re like, well, we’ll try to that we don’t see very often. So we’re like, all right, we’re going to go in between. And this little lake is west of Tulsa, but east of Guthrie, it’s in the middle, and Guthrie is just north of Oklahoma City. And so these are all Corps of Engineer campgrounds And as I get a veterans discount. So all you vets out there user discount 50% off. So they all have what they say their rules are for the gate. But no two places are the same. Texoma has never ever closed it. They didn’t even have camp hosts this time. Some places are super anal and they always close it at 10:00 at night, so you just don’t know what you’re going to get. So where we’re staying was actually a really small campground, and they had a nice little parking lot right outside the gate. And I’m like, hey, if it’s closed, I don’t really care. It wasn’t more than an eighth of a mile from the little parking lot outside the gate to your to our camper, and it’s like you can still walk through. It’s no big deal. So we get in late, like almost midnight and the gates closed. I’m like, that’s fine, it’s whatever. We’re expecting it. And then we pull off in the parking area and these vicious dogs surround our van and start barking at us.

John: There’s two German shepherds and the third is black and looks like those police dogs. Those Czech police dogs. I don’t know what they are. Anyway, I get out like an idiot and one doesn’t charge me. It gets really close. I jump back in, I’m like, okay, that’s weird. So we’re sitting there trying to figure out what to do because like, we can almost see our camper, but I’m not getting out. We have six kids in there too, and another truck shows up late and they pull off and the gal jumps out and the dogs surround her and she jumps back in. The guy tries it. He jumps back in. We’re like, this is ridiculous. So I called the sheriff’s department and he comes out real friendly guy. And he’s like, man, I don’t even know why they closed the gate. I’m like, hey, man, I don’t know. I’m just staying here. So the gate camp host is a volunteer position, but they get free place to stay. Basically, it’s right by the gate. So he pulls up there and he turns on his giant LED light bar. It’s like as bright as the surface of the sun right outside our window. And he starts hitting the foghorn feature on his siren. I mean, 20 minutes on what kind of like Ambien stupor she was in. But I’m like, first off, how do you not hear the dogs? They were out there for an hour barking. Finally she comes out. She looks disoriented, and the cops like, hey, what the hell are you doing? What’s going on? I can’t hear it all.

John: She grabs a couple of log chains and ties these dogs up, and she goes and pops open the gate, drive through. All right. So I’m like, all right, well, we got that out of the way. Next day, park rangers driving by and I flag him down. I’m like, hey, you can talk to this park attendant about her dogs. And he goes, those aren’t her dogs. I’m like, okay. It’s like those are strays that someone dumped. I’m like, all right. He goes, animal control won’t pick him up because there’s no room in Tulsa. Apparently, an entire city of Tulsa. There’s no room for three dogs. I’m like, okay. And he’s like, Sheriff’s department won’t dispatch these dogs. They won’t shoot them unless they attack someone. I’m sitting here like, you’re telling me that this campground is being held hostage by three stray dogs, and he just looks at me and goes, yeah, pretty much the rest of the time is pretty uneventful. We figured out that they only keep the gates closed during peak hours over the weekend, so outside of that, it’s open and we just drove through. But I was just sitting there and I couldn’t rep. I actually gave him a one star review on Google. I had to and I write this long essay saying it’s a fine campground, except for it’s being roamed by a pack of wild dogs. Like this isn’t.

Wade: That’s not an amenity. Yeah, that’s not an amenity.

John: No, because, I mean, they were dropping their giant doggie bombs in our spot while we weren’t there. Like, our dogs were locked up in the trailer. I’m like, okay. And there’s only one other camper there. And actually, I got to tell you, I called the sheriff’s department twice in two days. That’s more than I’ve called 911 in the past 20 years, because next to us, the only other camper there we hadn’t seen the whole five days were there and we heard a dog in there. No lights on, nothing. So I called for a wellness check the next night, and I think the cops were probably like, what is going on at this place? So we were more than happy to leave.

Wade: Yeah, well, we can cross that one off the list. So it’s an adventure, so that’s always good. Well, good. Well, good. Well, I’m glad you’re home safe. And so we can start chatting about some fun stuff with the firearms and. Yeah. So what are we talking about first today man. What do you want to chat about?

John: First let’s go with this very high end ZeroTech Optic. It is a 5 by 30 by 56. It has two different reticle options. And first off the bat, this is not like your Bushnell or your primary arms. Like this is a almost $3,000 scope. So you have a lot of disposable income and you have a sweet rifle on a chassis. You want to reach out and touch something. This is your bag. But if you’re just talking about tagging a whitetail, every deer or whitetail deer every year probably a little excessive. So I took a look at it. And it’s pretty slick. So this sucker has it’s adjustable out to 30 times which I mean that’s your standard deer scope that comes on every Savage or Remington. It’s a 3.9. So your max power is nine times. So this bottom end is five adjustable up to 30 times. So I mean you’re like talking way out there. And it has up to 30, 35 milliradians of elevation and 30 milliradians of windage. So those are just mill, you know, and I actually had to do a little bit of digging because I’m like, well, what exactly is this? And I don’t know, do you know what a milliradian is?

Wade: I watched, uh, Oppenheimer last night, so I know what a kilotonne is. And a megaton. No, I don’t know what this is. America. Sir. We don’t deal in the, uh, metric system.

John: Well, actually it’s not. It is 1/1000. So each click, each milliradian. So each mil click is 1/1000 of the distance traveled. That’s how it breaks down. And it’s just like a MOA click. That’s the basic idea there. I thought that was pretty cool. Comes in two different reticles. I took a look at each one of them. One of them is the RMG two. It looks like a standard crosshair, but it’s got little tick marks all under the bottom, adjusting for windage and distance. I thought that was pretty slick. These are all argon purge, so you’re not going to get any of that disgusting moisture accumulating in your scope. That’s pretty rad. The other reticle is the tremor three FFP radical, and it is made for a little bit more speed for acquiring targets a little quicker. So I don’t do long distance shooting. I attempt to shoot deer. I’m not very good at that either, but this seems pretty slick.

Wade: Yeah, it’s one of those things where. And I always try to tell people that are new to firearms, I just think all guns are just you’re just pointing. The thing goes bang. Well, yeah, it’s true, but the thing does, you just point and go bang. But you can go as deep as you want. Oh my gosh, any aspect of firearms that you want to do, long range precision shooting. It’s a can be a very granular and expensive endeavor for you to do that. And this is one of those things where it’s like, I would never have the ability. I just don’t have the ability. I’m very I could maybe I could work myself up to this kind of precision shooting and a need for this, but I don’t have any need for this type of thing. But it is good to know that you’re never going to outrun your gear now.

John: Yeah, yeah, this is basically a real life math equation. That’s what long distance shooting is like a series of math equations. And the guys that get into it, like you said, I mean, they go really deep because, I mean, every caliber is different. But then you start I mean, it’s kind of like NASCAR where it seems like you said, you’re the concept is very simple. You’re punching a hole in a sheet of paper that’s a long way away from you. All right. And the way I say, it’s like NASCAR and I’m not a NASCAR guy. Don’t let the beard fool you. But it actually really fascinated me. I was reading, uh, Joe Gibbs book years ago, and he was coach of the skins, I believe. And then I saw the hat before he got on, so that’s pretty cool. Um, but he also owned a race team. Interstate battery was his was his sponsor. So every single track, they actually have to put different tires on. They have to tune the suspensions. You know, all these little things. You think they’re just punching gas and going 180 miles an hour. That’s not really what’s going on. And that’s how this is to that within every caliber. I mean, the difference of a couple of grains or just the composition of a bullet changes everything. So, I mean, this is really deep stuff. And I guess if you get into it, man, that’s really cool, but I’m with you. I just don’t have the patience for it.

Wade: The thing about it is that it’s a smart person’s endeavor. You’re not going to outsmart firearms, you’re just not going to. And so you’re it’s like you said, it’s like if you however deep you want to go and however technically you want to go, that you have that capability. And this type of scope and precision shooting is one of those areas that you can really get into gear and you can really make a craft out of it, because that these people that can, can hit those targets so far away and do all the required math, some of them can do that in their heads. They can just feel, do this and feel. It’s amazing, I know.

John: Yeah, I can’t even do it with a calculator. And it really is amazing.

Wade: And it’s a talent, right? And it’s a craft. And so stuff like this is I love seeing stuff like this, not because necessarily that I would ever buy it because that would be a gigantic waste of money for me. There’s no there’s no way that I would ever, at least with my skill level right now. I mean, precision shooting for me is that’s like two phases away from me right now, right? Yeah. And so this is something that it is cool to look at this and be like, yeah, that would be awesome one day if I was to ever do it. Maybe when I’m like really old and I’m too lazy to like, move around, I’ll just be like really good at this. So. But yeah, that’s great man. Yeah. I love your take on it. I think it’s really cool. All right. Where are we going next?

John: Next one is the FN EVOLYS. I think basically it’s the evolution of the M240, the saw and the evolution of the M240. It looks like they mixed them together. So it’s a light squad machine gun. So this is obviously a class three type of thing or military specific I guess they dropped the first concept 3 or 4 years ago. It’s the M240 and 249 are old. Like they said in this article. I mean FN has owned the light machine gun market for a long time. Like we we always think of the M60, the hog of Vietnam lore. It was crazy heavy and actually had a lot of reliability issues. So the 60 got phased out by the M240. Like I think it was before I joined. I joined in 2002. I wasn’t a door kicker, so I wasn’t really privy to all the small arms stuff, but I think the Air Force got relegated a lot of the 60s because we’d see them on the Humvees at the front gate if they were doing an exercise. But the actual the real door kickers in the Army, they phased over to the two 40s, I think in the late 80s or in the 90s after Persian Gulf, which we’re going to go there with one of the next products, but I won’t skip ahead. I can’t even I don’t know how to say it. I think it’s pretty slick. It looks like it’s got a I can’t tell if the rail in the front, if it’s monolithic or if it’s two pieces, but it’s got a full length rail, so it looks like they’ve got a thermal along with the scope on there, the one they’ve got here in in the article which is on the firearms blog, basically Basically one thing they did is they were using the helping outweighed what is FN’s rifle, not the M4, but the other their own, their homebrew. But anyway, they took that off and they just put the standard M4 stock on there with quick disconnects on there. Probably a really good move, because every shooter in the military has used some version of the M4 since 2001 2002, Almost.

Wade: All G1 is the M4. Yeah, it’s all G so yeah. So like everybody yeah.

John: I shot A2s at basic training. But I mean but the next time I qualified we were already using M4s in the early 2000. So I mean everyone’s using an M4 stock. Yeah. So they went with an M4 stock. It looks like they replaced. They call those fiberglass fiberglass bipod with aluminum.

Wade: I mean the big thing I think that’s changed and it just goes back to what we just were talking about with that scope is the optics. Right. So like the thermal going to thermal on this or just the even on the machine guns are getting they’re getting super squirrely with the optics. Right? I mean that’s just a whole different world now where totally it’s like you just put the dot on where you want to shoot and that puts the you get it there. And so it’s it is pretty amazing. Kind of just the advancements even in the last ten, ten years. Just on the optics side.

John: Oh yeah. The rail is fantastic. I mean, squad machine guns. Even at the beginning of July, it was still almost all open sights. And now that they can mix and match anything thermals, night vision, standard trijicon optics, whatever, they put them on there. And I mean, it just makes it much more lethal platform. So it looks pretty cool. I doubt that I’ll ever be using one again.

Wade: Yeah, and again, it’s there are people that I’m sure like they’ll go through the process to be able to qualify, to be able to get one of these somehow. Right? Yeah. And that’s your thing. That’s your thing. But I always find it interesting. I don’t know if you’ve watched any of the Ukraine footage, and I try not to, but I’ve watched some of it and some of it is just so old school. Like it’s almost like we’re going back in time, right? Like, yeah, a lot of the stuff that we’re talking about is very high tech and it’s like, yeah, that’s great. But then you look at some of the things in the field that are being used right now, and it’s literally like caveman. I’m holding two grenades in each hand and I’m just running through this trench and it’s it’s incredible. It’s unbelievable.

John: And and I mean, most of the the hardware being used in that war is still Soviet bloc stuff from the Cold War era. Like it really is not very impressive by modern standards.

Wade: Still works.

John: Yeah.

Wade: Still working so but yeah. So and that’s the thing too is I think that there’s this and like so this machine gun obviously I’m never going to shoot this gun. Right. Unless I go to a range and they have it somewhere. But but like you can geek out on all the, the optics and you can geek out on all of the like the bells and whistles and get real good with it. But at the end of the day, it’s like you just need to know how to use iron sights and put your rounds on target. And I agree with that. And that’s how I’ve always looked at it. Like I really resisted putting an optic on my on one of my guns. I finally put an optic on one of my guns, and that’s just on one of my handguns. And it’s just because I felt like, okay, I’m good enough with the old timey battle sights or iron sights, like an old timey battleship that I’m like, all right, let’s put an optic on one of these. And I don’t get into the Gooch. I’m not good enough to get into the Gooch house that.

John: Well, neither am I. If it makes you feel better.

Wade: Well, it doesn’t. You should be better. You should be better. All right, let’s go to this next one. This makes me laugh. The Cookie Monster. Cookie monster Safariland limited edition Chocolate Chip, 6000 holsters.

John: Yes. That’s what I was alluding to earlier about the the original. The first Iraqi War. So I slipped in. They had just gotten rid of the chocolate chip camo patterns when I joined. So when we got desert camo issued, it was the the tri color, not the chocolate chip, which I thought was really disappointing because I thought the chocolate chip was fantastic. I don’t know if it was actually worthwhile or anything in the desert, and I don’t even care. It looks awesome. So this is Safariland’s kind of their regular. Now, here’s a little caveat. I think it should be unlawful that you use anything besides a Beretta 92 or an M9 in that, because that was the standard sidearm at the time. I’m not even a fanboy of that, but it just seems wrong to put anything else in that. So. But I’ve heard great things about the Safariland retention holsters. They actually work. Cops don’t lose their sidearms when they’re scuffling with those. Are they going to wear a chocolate chip on the beat? Probably not. This is clearly just for fun and for a range bosses or something, but it is cool. I mean, the chocolate chip pattern was iconic.

Wade: And that’s the cool thing is, like, you can individualize whatever you want, right? You can make it unique to yourself. And like, I would never do this chocolate chip thing because I don’t. First of all, I didn’t even know it was in reference to like the old Campbell pattern. I just like this. Looks like a cow, right? Looks like it looks like they took a cow like or a palomino horse and made this out of leather. Right. And it also too is I write for a wholesale holster company, so I always feel like I’m cheating on them whenever I talk positively about someone else’s holsters. But Safariland is I mean, they’re gigantic.

John: Yeah, they’re big boys.

Wade: And that’s one thing. Talking about it from a business perspective, right, is that is is if you can have your core offer work so well in a business that then you can take some flyers on some things, that’s I think when business becomes really fun is that when you figure out your core offer, you got your bread and butter. And I may have talked about this before, but take for example, like on the beer side, Allagash, it’s a brewery up in Maine. They have Allagash White, which is like a Belgian white ale, which is responsible for 90% of their sales. So they have other beers or whatever, but 90% of what they sell is Allagash White. But that allows them then to just get real squirrely with everything else, because they plan out the money they make off of the Allagash White. And then they we went to their brewery and they had this, this open air, uh, room brewery room where they were getting wild yeast in from the windows to help to ferment the beer. But that takes a really long time, because there’s not a lot of wild yeast in the air where they were and just stuff like that, though. And that’s what I think about whenever I see something like this. It’s a company that is that’s in the groove and they’re like, someone was just like, eff it, let’s do a chocolate chip 6000. And I like how they call it the 6000, right? It’s yes, we’re gonna call it the chocolate chip 6000. Like so I appreciate I don’t necessarily like the chocolate chip 6000 as a product for myself personally, but I love that some some dude, probably a dude, sat in a room and was like, we’re gonna make a chocolate chip 6000 holster, and I’m doing it. And somebody else was like, that’s the best idea I’ve heard today. That’s an awesome idea, right? Like it? Here it is.

John: Those boomer vets are going to kill for this guarantee. That thing only gets sold in 1911. And bro.

Wade: Are you serious?

John: That’s just my thought. That’s my thought.

Wade: I thought this.

John: Yeah, it’s going to be the.

Wade: I thought this was like an anti FUD holster.

John: No, dude, these are the veterans that were there in 1990 and 91. And then I think Mogadishu was they were still using chocolate chips and Moog.

Wade: Well and that’s the chocolate chip. Problem is I don’t when I think as a normal human, when I think chocolate chip, I think Cookie Monster. I think this is going to be a range. Mom is going to be doing that. Like, I feel like you’re.

John: Insinuating that I’m not a normal human. That’s the vibe I’m getting from this.

Wade: Once you’re in the military, it never gets out of you. So it’s like, so, but illness? Well, it’s not an illness. Yeah, it’s an illness.

John: It is an illness.

Wade: But also it gives you a perspective that stays with you. So for example, it’s like I have no visceral reaction to the chocolate chip camo pattern because I never was like disappointed that I didn’t get to wear it. I didn’t even know it was a thing. Yeah, I thought they were talking about cookies. And this is for kids or something, right? That’s why I have no problem with it. That’s right. And that’s why I have you on the show, is because I come from one perspective and you come from the opposite perspective. Between the two of us, we cover everybody. And that’s what I just like the name and I think about it. I like the chocolate chip 6000.

John: I’ll let you just keep thinking that’s what it’s talking about. It’s just cookies. Cookies.

Wade: Well, you got to protect your cookies, man. This episode is brought to you by TacticalPay.com. Every few years, it seems large banks and national credit card processors suddenly decide that they no longer want to process payments for firearms and firearms related businesses, and And so they dropped these businesses with almost no notice, freezing tens of thousands of dollars in payments for months on end. If you want to ensure your partner with a payments provider that is dedicated to supporting the firearms industry, or you just want to find out if you could be paying less for your ACH, debit and credit card processing, visit TacticalPay.com. Again, that’s TacticalPay.com. Anything else that you would like to talk about with the chocolate chip?

John: Oh, besides that, I mean, it’s a regular 6000, so you can have red dots and I’m sure they make it for every pixel. Like, you can tell the the picture here. It’s a 19 with a light and a red dot. But I still think that’s a sacrilege for the pattern. It should only be a 92 or 1911.

Wade: Only 92 with iron sights, no optic, no no lights. What’s next?

John: I think we have a rangefinder. Wilcox rangefinder is going to be supplying micro rangefinders for German special forces, which these look incredibly useful. They go on any standard Picatinny rail. You get a little remote control that you can take to your weapon wherever you want it. Click it on and that sucker tells you a range on whatever you point it at, which is really cool. It really wasn’t too much in the article about it. Just said that in February, the German special forces were soliciting for rangefinder for their weapons, Wilcox Industries. They got the bid and they are supplying German special forces. This is something that if you got the dollars for it, which it didn’t have an MSRP, because that’s not the point of it, but I can only imagine where that’s at. It could be very useful for all kinds of different people. If you’re trying to shoot an antelope out in western Nebraska and it’s you’re guessing it’s somewhere between 700 and 900 yards away. It’s pretty rad that you can paint it with that and know exactly, oh, it’s at 789. Nice. And set your scope to that.

Wade: So yeah stuff like that’s cool that it short circuits the it’s short circuits the math. Right. But then also then I always have the argument again where it’s like, well you’ve got to know how to do it the old fashioned way, because what if it doesn’t work right. Like what if it breaks like there is this overreliance on gear, I think sometimes. And and the other thing too, with stuff like this is you like, let’s say that you’re looking at it from a lack of the rule of law has broken down and you’re just you’re on your property and you want to see what’s going on or see how something far someone is away or whatever. Sometimes these things can reveal where you’re at, right? So it’s because what does it use infrared basically to to do that or to ping it or how to what is the if you’ve got some you can basically have some challenges. If you don’t have these scopes set up correctly with regards to security and stuff like that.

John: I have to actually look at the website. I don’t know, I think it might be uh, non illuminating laser, but I’m not totally sure what practice it’s using. Yeah, it’s a laser ranging device. Like I said I believe it’s an IR laser. So so

Wade: At night you’re seeing it basically you’ve got nods right. Yeah.

John: So I mean if you’re if your enemy has them, they’re going to see it.

Wade: In Minecraft.

John: In Minecraft.

Wade: Yeah exactly. Well yeah. Well no. And that’s the thing too is like all these things have their positives and negatives and like the two negatives that I always see are stuff like this is, is just learn to do it with the math if you’re going to do it right. But I mean, again, I’m sure there’s reasons that you, there’s tactical reasons to have it other than the fact it’s just fun and an antelope is not going to see it. So yeah, that’s always good too.

John: It looks like it’s got a, uh, a red laser as well. So you can go between the two.

Wade: I feel like we’re on the Super Gooch version of our articles today, because everything has been, like, super high end stuff that I would very rarely like, probably not use. But yeah, you know what I mean? Because, I mean, this is gonna be the thousands of dollars, this thing, whatever. Oh yes.

John: Well, this is government. These are military contracts, so they don’t really care about price tags.

Wade: That’s true, that’s true. But still I mean, they are pretty. It is pretty cool though.

John: Oh, it’s super cool.

John: Absolutely. I mean that you paint your target and has a little visual display facing you and you can put it anywhere. You put it on the top of your rail side of the rail. You can put on a rail on top of the scope, and it just tells you exactly what you just painted, whatever distance is. And that’s that is really cool. I mean, for the.

Wade: Cheap version and get like a golf one that does this like don’t like and they have like the golf range finders where you put it on the pin and it just tells you how far it is basically,

John: Imagine being the procurement officer for the German Special forces and you telling your commanding officer that’s your idea, and then you find yourself.

Wade: Come here.

John: You find yourself unemployed immediately.

Wade: Yes. I can’t do a German accent. I should be able to. I watched Oppenheimer last night. So there were some Germans in there, right?

John: There’s some. Anyway. Yeah. Pretty high end rig. Cool. Definitely not something I’ll be putting on my $400 AR 15 any time soon. Well, I finally splurged and bought a vortex optics.

Wade: Everyone’s $400 or blend AR 15 from from Palmetto is always has more more money on it in the attachments than the actual gun itself. Almost everyone. And that’s actually a it’s actually a good thing because the platform is so you know, know if you’re a military person or like a hardcore shooter or whatever, it’s not a good fit for you. But like for normal humans, like, that’s fine. You’re never going to you’re never going to out use that gun.

John: The cheap budget tier AR 15 of today is vastly better than almost any military armament in history up until now. Because the production, the tooling, the metals, the alloys are so good. None of this is done by hand. This is all done by machines. It’s high quality stuff. I mean, it’s crazy to think that your cheap AR that you picked up on sale is better than almost every military weapon up until the past 20 years. Well, don’t say that.

Wade: You’re going to get all the guns rights people freaking out with that comment, right? Oh.

John: Uh, let me predict. This is just in terms of quality and manufacturing. That goes for everything in life, including your KitchenAid, your car.

Wade: Yeah, yeah. Well, and the other thing too is like, that’s why I think about like the Glock 19, right. So yes, the Glock 19 is millions and maybe billions of rounds have been put through Glock 19 and probably billions in clones. Right. It’s like the AK, right? There’s so much feedback from use in the field that it’s going to be great and then it works and then that’s it. It’s just it’s sick. So anyway that’s my $0.02 on talking about. And you can.

John: Always buy magazines for ten bucks for it or whatever. 10 or 15 bucks.

Wade: Exactly, exactly. And everyone has are parts and Glock parts and sig parts and all that good stuff. So yep. But it is funny when to bring it back around. You will put more money on gear on these guns now on your attachments than the actual gun itself.

John: Yep, not me personally, but me generally because I’m cheap.

Wade: Well, but I think a lot of people. But I mean, if you just get an optic or whatever. Are you hearing my dog, by the way? Do you hear my dog? Yeah.

John: She’s. I don’t really hear.

Wade: Oh that’s good, all right. Yeah. All right, let’s talk. Speaking of optics, let’s go to our last one here, which is the Vortex Optics.

John: I just gave Vortex a free plug because I just bought a Vortex red green dot. I can’t remember what they call it, but it’s the one that looks just like the Aimpoint that’s on M4’s. And it’s awesome. I love it. I mean, that that was me coming off of buying like really low budget red dots and moved up to that one. I’m like, wow, I’ve really been missing out. You set your bar incredibly low. You’re always set up for appreciating the next tier up.

Wade: I think I have a Vortex. I don’t even remember what I got. I think I put a Vortex on my 19, I think I have a Vortex Venom. Was that what that is? The Vortex Venom? Yeah, I think so. Yeah.

John: All right. So the Viper has been around for a long time because I’ve been eyeballing these for projects forever. And this one is just a this is an updated version of it. It’s just it’s another generation. So it’s like you’re just having a Glock. You know, you have the same basic platform because it works really well. But you make updates as technology continues to evolve. I think what they were saying in this one, from there, from the article and from their little presser, the vortex presser, is that they’re trying to marry a hunting and a tactical scope into one. So it appeal to a more broad crowd with this. This one has. So this is just the Viper in general, I think HD. So they have a two by ten by 42. So that’s going to be in your fairly typical hunting ranges. So maximum magnification ten 3 to 15 by 44 a 5 to 25 by 50. So that’s definitely going to be more on the that’s going to be more in the competition realm, because 25 power generally gets you too close for an object that is moving, like when you’re hunting. So that’s why most power settings don’t go above like 12 for hunting specific scopes, because it just it’s too granular because those are really made for shooting a target that’s not moving at a long distance, not shooting an animal that’s skittish and looking around.

Wade: Well, yeah, like you’re not. You’ve got to get close to you’ve got to get close as you can to to a deer or whatever else you’re shooting. You know what I’m saying? It’s like you don’t want to be trying to shoot it from a bajillion miles away, because it’s just if you miss and, you know, put the animal down. It’s cruel to the animal. Animal runs off. So it’s I think you have you should be a good enough hunter to be able to get close enough to use a normal scope.

John: I think generally speaking, 200 yards is about the I mean, there are people that make like really actually good hunters that take really long shots in some places, like the western plains of Kansas, Oklahoma and Nebraska and then the Dakotas. I mean, some of the like antelope are one that are notorious. You’re not going to get closer than like 500 yards. Yeah. I mean, if you’re so skittish.

Wade: Yeah. But I mean if you’re in that area and that’s the you obviously it’s going to be just like everything else. It’s going to be how you’re going to have perspective on where you are and whatever. But for like normal human beings are like, yeah, I’m going to go hunt deer for the first.

John: Time in my backyard. And I put a bag of corn out.

Wade: Yeah. Exactly. Right. Yeah.

John: Like that’s literally talking about me. All right. That’s actually me.

Wade: I’m going to go put a put a blind up by the salt lick over here. And I’m just going to sit here and drink some beer and, like, give me a break. Yeah. Okay. You can do that. That’s great because you have 6000 on your property,

John: But not too far off.

Wade: Yeah, but no, but that’s right. You don’t need again. And I think everyone always wants to jump to it’s sexy to jump to the end of things, you know? I mean it’s always like everyone wants to go to C. Okay. Yeah, but you can’t go to C unless you go through A and through B, right. And so that’s the thing is, and I see so many people on the range with this gear that they obviously they’re not good enough to be using. And it doesn’t make a difference. Like it’s such a granular difference. And so, so but this is cool. Like when I see something like this I’m like okay, this is something I think you could work to. And it’s reasonable price and it looks like it’s a great object.

John: Really well proven vortex has been around I think like 15 years now. And they really they make a good product. It is it is a affordable tier but it’s really hot. It’s good stuff. Yeah. Um, well.

Wade: Here, here’s an interesting question for you too. So like, they’re trying to split the baby here between like, okay, you’re going to get one object and you can do hunting or tactical with it, right? I follow along the lines of, just like I’m going to have my TAC, my arrows, my tactical gun. Like maybe I get a Savage or a Remington or whatever for my deer rifle or whatever. And then I just I treat them separately. Right. So that’s how I think of it. So when I pick up this tool, this is what I’m using this tool for. But do you think of that the same way or do you think more of like, no, it’s better to be able to have a cross platform where you could use it for like, let’s just have an AR and if we want to trick it out for hunting, we can do that. And if we want to trick it out for tactical, we could do that. Like what are your thoughts on that?

John: My perspective may be a little different. I have some kids are getting into. So my daughter’s 14. She’s very interested. One of my daughters, my second oldest, very interested in getting in deer hunting. So for me a like an AR ten or an AR 15, in one of the deer calibers, like not 2 to 3, but in like a 6.5 Grendel or a 6.8 SPC, or even a 300 blackout, or a 7.62 by 3.9 makes a lot of sense, especially most of our shots in our back pasture. It’s pretty narrow. It’s only about 75 yards wide. So they would be kind of chip shots anyway. So a 30 caliber round, an AR 15 would work, or even a 350 legend would work well back there. And but also is a great self-defense platform. Of course, then I would probably just be swapping out uppers, an AR ten in either 6.5 Creedmoor or a 3.8, or even a 243 Winchester AR ten upper would be fantastic for what I’m doing out here. And for that then I think definitely having a multifunction scope works out because, you know, a three away has still got a fair amount of kick if you’re a young woman, but in an AR ten, it’s completely manageable and would open up some doorways to more than one type of shooting with one platform. So the long answer is, I’ve lived out here in the hinterland for a while, so the lines are definitely more blurry. I’m 4.3 million times more likely to shoot a coyote with my AR 15 than to ever engage a human. All right. I speak from experience because I’ve engaged a lot of coyotes out here. So for me, there’s definitely a lot of crossover.

Wade: Yeah. Well, and I and that’s always one of those. It’s always one of those things where it’s when you need it. Right. And so and you will probably never need it, but you just you always want to be that person. That is if you do, then you’ve got it. And so I guess that is I guess that’s the answer is it depends for me, I’m not super mechanically savvy. So like I don’t like to take apart anything. I’m very slow when I clean my stuff. I’m not switching out upwards. Right. Like I’m like, this is the platform I’ve got set. So that’s the best part. Well, I’ll just buy another one. Right. So like this is my tactical one. This is my hunting one. Right. So like I’m going to I’m taking a scout course this fall. And so like I’m actually going to build out a new gun for that. Because the gun that I have right now is not it’s not a reach out and touch someone gun. Right. So and it’s like I just want to have the two guns. Like one of them’s like, all right, let’s go run around the woods. And the other one is something goes bump in the night. Are you going to do.

John: A rattle can? Are you going to spray paint it? You should spray.

Wade: No, because I’m not artsy and craftsy like that. Like I’m not good. I would make it look so bad. I’m just. I would make it look so bad. So just black is fine, so. All right. They’ll probably. Maybe he’ll make me do it, but I’m old, man. I don’t care what anybody else thinks. Like I’m not a fudd like I, but I wouldn’t care if I showed up with a 1911. I’d be like 1911. I still haven’t, I still haven’t bought one. But I know I’m going to get you to buy one. Do you own one, 1911?

John: No, I’ve never even shot one.

Wade: It’s going to be a running joke. I’m just going to be like, it’s time for your 1911, John.

John: If I could stop my bad habit of buying tractors, I probably would have already have several.

Wade: Well, tractors are going to hold their value, bud. You’re going to be I think some some things are going to happen here in the next ten years. You’re going to be very thankful you have those tractors. Yep.

John: And I’ve been picking up vintage firearms whenever I find them at estate sales too, because again, that’s a market that, that historically almost always appreciates.

Wade: Yeah. What people also don’t understand too, with your diesel tractors is you can trick out a diesel tractor to run a generator, like in a lot of people don’t even think it’s just a PTO attachment.

John: You just hook it up on the back and turn it on. And you got a generator. Yeah.

Wade: And Diesel. Diesel obviously keeps for a long time.

John: My Diesel is a very old tractor so I can I can also very.

Wade: Easily for like canola oil on that thing and it will run probably would.

John: It probably would. It has basically no technology on the tractor at all.

Wade: That’s. Yeah, I mean that’s again that the tractors they have now is like if you don’t make your payment on it then you shut it off like it’s crazy.

John: Yeah. No I’m not a fan of those. No. Mine are very vintage. My newest is a 79.

Wade: That’s the same thing with everyone in the electric car, right? They’re like no, if it has up up update software, it’s like you people, you’re.

John: Driving an iPhone with wheels.

Wade: And they can shut it off like someone can shut it off like a hacker can shut it off, the company can shut it off. The government can shut it off like you’re crazy. Yes, it’s the same people. Like, I’m going to buy subscription heated seats for my BMW. I was like, all right, man, that’s insane. Like, why would I buy insane? Why would I buy something and then have to pay you a subscription fee for part of it to work?

John: The older I get, the more I appreciate older stuff. Like iron. Like the iron sights argument. Like, well, I don’t have to keep a batch of Cr123a batteries on hand because I know that my iron sights don’t need a battery. They’re always going to work.

Wade: But I will say this though about the Vortex Venom that battery lasts for freaking ever. Oh yeah, I mean, you can leave it on thousands of hours. Lasts forever. And like, you just put this, it shakes awake, so you just turn it on and then it goes into sleep mode. And then one of those, you buy a pack of batteries for $10 and you probably have ten years of batteries, right? Yeah. It’s true. It’s insane. It is true. And then you just I just do coaxial so that I can still shoot the Ironsides with the red dot or not. So even. Yeah. Not so. So that is, I will say that I finally did break down and say that site is pretty cool. And the other reason.

John: I do find myself looking at 1911 quite often actually. And that’s not a joke.

Wade: Actually, the older new guns I’m going to buy is I still got to get the Remington 1022 or the Ruger. Sorry.

Wade: And then just this new AR and then I’m actually set for a while.

John: So no more new guns for me because my wife would be like, wait.What exactly do you need these for? Yeah. Reasons.

Wade: Reasons, of course. So you won’t.

John: Go wrong with 1022. It’s I mean, it’s just it’s fantastic. Well, the.

Wade: 1022 and then the 1022 takedown. The takedown is really cool. Like you just the whole thing fits in and you get that magpul stock. It’s sick. And I can’t believe for a lot of those entry level guns the cost is coming down so fast. Yeah. Like, I was sending you those links for that shot. That that one shot gun that was.

John: Like 120 bucks or something.

Wade: It was less. It was almost 110. It was like 99. Yeah. I thought it was almost $99, but like, it was like $109 or something. It was insane. Yeah. It was like, it’s it’s so. But anyway though. Yeah. So we will kind of get you with our articles today. But I do think there’s one thing I think a good way to look at that as a person, if you’re thinking about getting a firearms, is don’t worry, you’re never going to outrun your gear. You’re never going to have you’re never not going to have things to learn. It’s it’s just there’s so much depth to it.

John: You could you can. And especially I don’t know if you’ve ever done any handloading or been around someone that does that is like the whole reloading and handloading. You could spend a lifetime learning that and still not even scratch the surface of all the things you can do.

Wade: The only thing I’ve ever been around with that was in North Dakota, obviously, is people would for shotgun shells as they would load their own shells. Right. And I feel like that’s easier to me. And this may be wrong because I don’t know how to do it. I don’t know how to do any of it. But to me, that seems that there’s a lot more give in loading a shotgun shell than there would be in trying to do like a five, five, six round or something like, I don’t know if that’s true or not, but it seems to me it’d be easier to just to pack it in there like it’s an old musket.

John: It’s it wasn’t that hard when I still had a 9 to 5 job. My employee was a major hunter, big time. He’s working on doing his second safari, and he brought in his gear and we actually were reloading. He took his own reloads to a safari. He used his own loads because he knew what he was going to. He knew what he was going to hunt. And so he actually was tailor making loads for the hunts over there. Crazy stuff.

Wade: Well, and that’s when you’re getting into the granular, granular granular where you’re. Yeah, master craftsman. We were like the difference between your load and just the commercial load or whatever. It’s you’re getting into crazy ass autistic ends of the spectrum for that stuff.

John: Well, he was showing me it was a 338. I can’t remember if it’s a Remington Magnum or when Winchester Magnum with the caliber is, but it’s a 330, a big Magnum rifle, and he was showing me the Safari rounds that are that you can buy from Cabela’s. The Safari loads. It was like 100 bucks for 20 rounds. So he was saving a lot of money by cranking out his own. Because when you get into those calibers, the if you’re hunting T-Rex or something, those are not cheap.

Wade: Well, and also too, I think it’s just something cool. It adds to the experience, right? It’s yes, I, I did this myself. I did the AI and that’s the one thing about hunting that people will never understand if you’ve never done it, is that the end part of the hunt is almost the least important part of the hunt. It’s the sharing that we’re going to go on this hunt with your kids, or you’re sharing the moment with your friends. We’re going to go on this hunt and the planning and then getting everything together and the anticipation and then the being out in the in the wild and experiencing everything and then having everything come together in that moment. It’s like baseball in that way. Right where? Right. Right where. It’s like the whole experience of. That’s why watching baseball on TV, unless you’re a purist, is boring. But going to a game is always fun, even if you don’t like baseball.

John: It’s because I talked to my wife about that just a couple nights ago. It’s so different.

Wade: It’s the experience, right? And then there’s the flip side of it too, with the hunting is that is that it funds all the conservation it actually allows, helps the animals to thrive. And so and so that’s just part of that where you can anything you can add do to add to the experience for yourself, like if you do your own rounds or whatever. I just think that’s cool. That’s your thing. That’s your thing.

John: It definitely his thing. So, so.

Wade: Not me because I’m not mechanically inclined that way. And I would definitely hurt myself or hurt someone else or just have it not work, right?

John: Probably just as well that you leave it up to the manufacturers.

Wade: I know exactly. I know my own. I mean, listen, there are things that I geek out and I go real deep on and people look at me like I’m a total mutant on, and that’s not what I’m for. Me. So. But that’s what the cool thing about firearms is. There’s there are so many different entry points, and there’s so many different points where you can go deep on, which is why we can talk about it every week and just have a fun time every week. Well, John, any closing thoughts or are we good to go? Man, I thought it was pretty good today. It was really good seeing you. I’m glad you’re back. Safe.

John: Yeah. No, it’s I’m happy to be back. And I encourage you to not go places where wild dogs roam the campgrounds. That is definitely the first thing I encourage you to not do. I thought that our products today were interesting, a little out of my wheelhouse, but still really cool to see that the technology is available to average nerds like you and me. That if we chose to go that deep down the rabbit hole, we could be shooting targets a mile away. And that’s rad.

Wade: There’s a lifetime of lessons and legacy in firearms, and I just never get tired of talking about it. And I’m thankful to be able to talk about it with you and this when we do this over a few weeks. And just glad you’re back. Safe to do so. So good to talk to you, man.

John: Yep. Good to be back.

Wade: All right. We’ll talk soon. You’ve been listening to the Tactical Business Show by TacticalPay.com. Join us again next episode as we explore what it takes to be a business success in the firearms industry.