Tactical Headlines with John McCoy – OCT. 31,2024

About This Episode

In Today’s episode, we explore the latest firearm releases making waves. Kimber unveils the all-metal CDS9 CCW 9mm, while Savage Arms modernizes takedown rifles with the REVEL CLASSIC and REVEL DLX. Barrett introduces the SSRS for military use, enhancing squad support. Faxon Firearms supports Hornady’s .338 ARC with new barrels and uppers, and Browning updates its iconic Citori shotgun with the innovative 825 model.

Insights In This Episode

• Kimber’s All-Metal CDS9: The Ultimate CCW 9mm. (www.kimberamerica.com)
• Savage Arms’ REVEL Series: Classic Lever-Action, Modern Power. (www.savagearms.com/)
• Barrett’s SSRS: Game-Changing Support for Military Squads. (www.barrett.net)
• Faxon Firearms Backs Hornady’s .338 ARC with New Lineup. (www.faxonfirearms.com)
• Browning’s New Citori 825: Classic Style Meets Modern Performance. (www.browning.com)

About Tactical Business

Tactical Business is the weekly business show for the firearms industry. The podcast features in-depth interviews with the entrepreneurs, professionals and technologists who are enabling the next generation of firearms businesses to innovate and grow.

Episode Transcript

Wade: Welcome to the Tactical Business Show. I’m your host, Virginia Beach based firearms entrepreneur and copywriter Wade Skalsky. Each episode will be exploring what it takes to thrive as a business owner in the firearms industry. We’ll speak with successful firearms industry entrepreneurs about their experiences building their companies, leaders and legislators who are shaping the industry, and tech executives whose innovations will reshape the future of the firearms industry. Let’s get after it. Welcome to the Tactical Business Podcast. I am your host, Wade Skalsky. And once more I am joined by my co-host, John McCoy. John, how are you?

John: I’m good. Wade, how are you?

Wade: I’m good. Your beard is looking extra red today. Are you like a rabbit in that way? Where you change colors depending upon the season?

John: No clue. That was a thing. But I learned something new today that rabbits change colors. I did not.

Wade: Know. Aren’t they white in the winter and brown in the summer?

John: I usually just see them brown here in the middle of nowhere.

Wade: Even in the winter.

John: I don’t really look for rabbits that much because you can’t see.

Wade: You can’t see them because they’re white. It’s true, it’s true. It’s working on you. Yes. Maybe I made that up. I don’t know, it’s possible. I do that all the time. How are you doing today, sir? I’m good.

John: How are you doing?

Wade: I’m good man.

John: I heard that you took gold. You are officially the oldest Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu champion in the world history.

Wade: No, that’s.

John: Not very proud of.

Wade: That. It’s not true that I’m the oldest. I did take gold in a local Brazilian jiu jitsu tournament in what is called the absolute division, which is any age and any weight. And so I was yes, I was the oldest competitor at 52. And in the gold medal round, I fought a 21 year old who weighed about £30 more than me. So that was exciting. So it was fun. It was fun. It was good. Awesome.

John: Well, I wish you the best of luck to the senior Olympics. We’re all cheering for you, Wade.

Wade: Yes, yes. Thank you. Right to the jokes. Right to the jokes. Thank you I appreciate it. So.

John: But seriously, congrats. That’s awesome. Thanks.

Wade: It sounds more impressive than it is, but it was a pretty good result for my first jiu jitsu tournament and I will take it. What?

John: Sounds pretty impressive.

Wade: I never have to compete again, so I’ll just be like. I was like, yeah, I was just a gold medalist. That’s gold.

John: You probably ought to hang it up now.

Wade: Yeah, it’s only downhill from here, trust me, because I’m only going to get older and the the competitors are only going to keep getting younger and bigger and faster. So. Yeah, but thank you for that. Thank you for that kind. Those kind words. You’re welcome. All right. Well, cool. Well, let’s dive right into what we’re talking about today. What we’re going to first talk about is, in your opinion, is aesthetically challenged, in my opinion, where it looks like a retro 1970s move to me personally. So just I think it.

John: Looks like something out of a early 1980s sci fi movie where they took a standard handgun and made it look like it was a laser blaster. That’s just my thought on it.

Wade: Well, let’s talk about it. So we’re talking about the new gun from Kimber, the all metal CDS9, CCW 9millimeter. So let’s let’s dive into it.

John: All right, so I read over it last night, and I just I was having a hard time getting past it because I think it’s ugly. And I think if you’re going to carry a gun that costs. Well, let’s just hang it out there. If it’s $1,000 or more MSRP, it should be pretty. I will never carry like daily carry a gun that expensive because I know myself, but some people are all about it and that’s fine. Kimber makes fantastic stuff. So it is a single action 9mil. It’s a double stack. It is a obviously it is a concealed carry piece. It comes with a ten, 13 and 15 round mag. And what struck me about this, though, is how small it is for an all metal gun. So that really shows you that manufacturing technology is really because they’re using polymer a lot. It’s really light, but it’s easy. It’s easy to mold. If you have a high end manufacturing facility, it’s easy to mold it and make a smaller weapon. Using that for the frame. But obviously machining is to the point now where that’s really not a big issue anymore. So it is clearly it is a 1911 esque pistol. It looks like a 1911. And God, I don’t even know what else it’s mixed with.

Wade: And the station wagon from vacation had a baby.

John: Yeah, somewhere around there. A very small baby.

Wade: Very small baby.

John: So it’s single action. It doesn’t have the standard grip safety like all 1911 have the one that the web of your hand compresses. I don’t want to tick off the the shooters here. They’ll be like oh that’s this x and x safety. Because I don’t know because I don’t own a 1911. All right. Contrary to popular belief you’re.

Wade: Going to I’m going to keep working on you until you know.

John: I will. I’m sure I will. I will eventually get shamed into it. Anyway. Has standard Picatinny rails. It is already set up for optics.

Wade: I like that when you’ve got a concealed carry and you’re like, oh, I got to put a plate on it. Or like what? It’s not set up. It actually can really impact everything about the gun. So I like that it is set up without having to put any kind of plate on it, that is.

John: Yeah, yeah, it’s already ready for that. And one of the versions comes with a threaded barrel for suppressor. Let’s see here. Tag precision fiber optic sights. The sights look slick I like the sights. So overall it looks pretty cool I don’t know, I think it’s ugly, but it’s cool if there’s, like this middle ground, there’s like a the Venn diagram of cool and ugly but fully functional. So it’s somewhere in there.

Wade: I think this gun because basically of just how it looks, it’s like a brown. It’s got a brown on it or and there’s a red too. In terms of the stippling on, in terms of where you grip the gun, it almost looks like like fall colors. Right. Like this is my fall gun. When the leaves are changing, we’re going to start.

John: And the slide looks like a lizard with the machining on it. I know those are grips, but it looks like lizard scales.

Wade: Yeah, it’s almost like you could wear this if you were going to go wearing a Gucci suit or something. Honestly, it’s almost like it’s a fashion statement with this gun like. And that’s probably why I don’t I fall more towards the utilitarian side of things. I also don’t carry teeny tiny guns concealed carry, just because my hands are so big. And so it’s just I feel like when I grab a gun that’s like this, it’s too small. Like, my whole hand could grab the gun, so I prefer to go. That’s why I do the Glock 19. So I like it. So I disagree with you. I think it is aesthetically pleasing.

John: We can all believe what we want to believe, no matter how wrong we are. And the thing.

Wade: Is, though, is that as a Kimber, the thing is going to shoot. Yeah. Yes. And that’s the thing is, like, it.

John: Is a little heavier than comparably sized polymer guns because it’s all metal comes in at almost 21 or, yeah, almost 21oz empty. So it’ll be significantly heavier, especially if you go with a 15 round mag. It’s really small to have the same capacity as a Glock 19. It’s small, so. Cool piece. And if you are into the higher end, the non-threaded barrel is only 3.2in, so it’s a small little pistol. Msrp is ah 1075 to 1095. So a typical Kimber Price points there.

Wade: Yeah that’s why I wouldn’t I would not be buying it. I’ll be sticking with my. Sticking with my Glock 19.

John: Thank you. Like I could buy two Glocks for that. I’m just saying.

Wade: It’s so funny. So we were looking at this article, and if you want to go to KimberAmerica.com and they’ll have the website on there and you can take a look at it. But the article that I’m looking at is this Hook and Barrel magazine that they did a review on it. And when he talks in here about the trigger, I always feel like when people try to describe how the trigger works to them, it’s like a sommelier trying to describe wine, and they use it in a way that don’t quite. I never quite understand what anyone was trying to say because he’s like, it’s a crisp and clean breaking. There’s none of that striker fired mush and Sprong.

John: I know I was like, what?

Wade: I was like, what is wrong? I was like, I.

John: Know that stuck out to me when I was reading it. I was like, sprung, sprung.

Wade: And maybe it’s the sound, maybe it’s the sound, I don’t know, but it’s just funny. I mean, I guess if you throw.

John: 20,000 rounds a year downrange, which I do not do, then maybe that matters. I’m like, man, if it goes bang and it doesn’t accidentally discharge in my pocket, that’s really. Yeah, that’s step one.

Wade: Step one. And then step two obviously is just the thing about the triggers. Like, yeah, you’re going to like what you’re going to like, but you’re going to get used to it. If you shoot a gun, no matter if you like a trigger or not like the trigger, if you shoot a gun a thousand, you put 10,000 rounds down range on your gun. You’re going to get used to that trigger on that gun regardless if you like it or not.

John: And this to me, this is like the guitar. Like only a real virtuoso will know the difference between an ESP Les Paul and like a really high end Gibson. Like they’re the only ones. If I’m over here strumming a D and a G, I have no idea. It’s the same thing to me. So you have to really do this a lot, frankly, for it to warrant the price point. Unless you just have 1100 bucks in your pocket burning a hole in your pocket, then go for it.

Wade: Well, it’s a collector. You it’s one of those scenarios where if you buy a lot of guns and yes, you want to just mix it up and you want to go over your fall colors, conceal carry that matches your Gucci alligator shoes. Here you go.

John: Or if you happen to to run a casino. Yeah. When you said that it made me think of casino with was it De Niro?

Wade: Well, and that’s the funny thing you said about the threaded barrel, which I want to which I want to talk about for a second, is that if you were to look at your concealed carry guns, even like two years ago, nobody had a concealed had a threaded barrel and a concealed carry.

John: Why would you.

Wade: Right. Exactly right. So nobody was touting that. And so then there was this shift now where it’s like everyone all of a sudden magically has a concealed carry. The holsters are because they’re trying to expand the market. That’s an already saturated market. And so and so like, yeah, concealed carry.

John: Pistols are, you know, pretty, pretty saturated. There’s a million of them.

Wade: Yeah, there’s a million of them. Right. And so I think I find that really fascinating now that every time I look at a concealed carry, there’s the marketing choice. And this is a business podcast, right. It’s like, well, how can we take what we already have that the market already wants and make it so it’s a little more niche y. Right. Well, let’s gooch it up with this. Make it look like a fall, the fall festival, and throw some thread of barrels on there.

John: Exactly right. I do really like the normalization of sound suppressors, though. That’s a good thing. That’s a huge net win for firearms.

Wade: It’s a health issue. It is.

John: It really is. The way.

Wade: That I look at the The carry suppressor, though, is that if you get into a shoot and you have a suppressor on your concealed carry and you go to trial, for some reason, you’re getting convicted because they’re like, why did.

John: You have that suppressor? Correct. Right. Because I was worried about my ears. Yeah.

Wade: Right. Yeah. Because your normal person, like I can tell you, I did. I’ve done jury trials. A former prosecutor, former defense attorney, like the prosecutor. If the prosecution is mad at you, they’re going to they’re going to make it sound like.

John: You’re a hitman.

Wade: Right. Exactly. Yeah, exactly.

John: Well, and you look like one. Oh, well, why do you have a concealed carry piece with a sound suppressor on it? What were you doing, Mr. Jones?

Wade: Yeah, and I know everyone says hey, like, well, just put yourself in the position, like, worry about that later. But I was like, yeah, but for your concealed carry.

John: If someone’s mugging me in an alley, I’m not worried about my ears.

Wade: Correct, correct. Okay. Making something go big and bang is very part of the scary part of the gun. Right, for. Yeah, it’s just like more than one person going around. So from a meta perspective of the suppressor. Yeah, it’s fun, but personally I can’t see the the utility of using a suppressor for concealed carry. And the thing.

John: Is, pistols are far less dangerous to your hearing, even indoors, than a high powered rifle. It’s nowhere close, right? So, like for hunters who have traditionally always gone open ears, a suppressor is a huge win. It’s going to save your hearing. Because if you’re firing off a 300 win mag with open ears, that is huge concussive force, but a three, eight or a nine millimeter even inside is not that big. All right. It’s just not that big of a deal. So yeah, I’m very pro.

Wade: I’m very pro suppressors like I think everyone should have them. I don’t think that you should have to have a you shouldn’t have to apply for them. I think you should just be able to walk into a Walmart and buy 20 of them. And nobody should know or care. But I’m not sure it’s a good idea, for they’re also.

John: Bulky and heavy, like if you’re concealed carrying well.

Wade: And you’re drunk one on the draw, right? So like you’re you’re extending the length of the gun, which the whole point of the smaller gun for concealed carry is that it’s small, right. Yeah.

John: For target shooting, though at an indoor range. Maybe that’s your selling point, but.

Wade: Then the scenario is then. So you’re going to train with it, but then you’re going to carry it around without it. So just wear a pair of ear protection.

John: That’s a lot cheaper than a suppressor, a whole lot cheaper. But they’re.

Wade: Still. But again, maybe you just want to look super cool. And then yeah, with the suppressor on there and start showing that off with this. It looks.

John: Good. It looks great.

Wade: Especially some of those real small suppressors. It’s like the titanium ones or whatever those are. Oh yeah. Oh sweet. All right. They cost more than the gun but that’s okay. Yes. All right let’s go on. So we spent a lot of time on that. We chopped a lot of wood on that. I feel good about that topic right there.

John: So so I heard about this next one a couple weeks ago, and I was already salivating over it way before I read the article. So this is from Guns America, and it is all about Savage Arms has a new lineup of lever guns, but these are the rimfire lever guns. But these are no ordinary rimfire lever guns. They are takedowns. So they are the rebel line at the classic and the DLX. So the classic has the smaller loop, and then the DL has like the big cowboy loop style, and they come in. Where is it at right now? You can get them in both in 22 Long Rifle in spring of 2025, 22 Magnum WMR and then 17 HMR. So 17 Magnum and 22 Magnum will be available in the spring. So these are cool. I’m already slobbering. I already own 3 or 4 or maybe five. I don’t know. Savage Rimfires. So I have a sneaking suspicion one of these is going to be finding its way onto my wall here pretty soon.

Wade: Yeah. Now the now a couple of things now. One is that the from a business perspective, the king of the kings of the takedown 22 is obviously is the Ruger. Right.

John: So the Ruger they’re the ones that came up with the idea.

Wade: Yeah exactly. And so and from a utilitarian perspective those things they just they look great. Right. But these Savage Arms ones are so slick looking.

John: They are.

Wade: They are.

John: So.

Wade: Sweet. It’s like that, the wood. And it just looks awesome.

John: So what they did that I really like on the classic. If you look at the stock it’s a wood stock. So it’s walnut. But they have a belt or a sling loops built into them. And they have three different ones. So you can size it accordingly. And it appears that they’ve got them on the foregrip as well. Yeah. Just such a cool idea. And I believe they’re already drilled and tapped for optics. But yeah, that these ones, I just think they absolutely knocked it out of the park with these SavageArms.com is the website to go find these bad boys. And here’s what I like this for a lever gun. So number one is that lever guns used to be dirt cheap because no one bought them. They were so nichey and no one really bought them. They were nobody made them. They were just like you had the old school ones, the Winchester.

John: You could buy a marlin 336 at Walmart for 400 bucks, right? Right.

Wade: All day. Exactly. But then the market again starts to get saturated. So now there’s every ah option. Now there’s every it’s like you got all these other options for whatever you want. So now people are like, all right, let’s start making these lever guns. Because there’s people are like, well, what do we buy next? And so the next thing is on the long rifle side is precision, right? When it’s like, got to build out your new precision sniper rifle and lever guns. Yep. And what I like about these though is that they’re doable. Right. So that the MSRP on this is like $439. Okay.

John: Yeah. So the street price will be quite a bit less. Yeah.

Wade: And as a gun goes off, you’re going to give a gift for your son to get him started. So now I’m seriously, instead of buying the Ruger, I’m seriously thinking about getting Luke one of these bad boys because this is a yes, great looking gun. It’ll just be just cool to do. Like, he’ll have fun with it.

John: He won’t outgrow that gun. No, no. Like, that’s one that’s always gone. And I’m sorry I was actually had him backwards. The DLCs has a smaller loop, but it’s got the the strap, the sling holes. So I had them backwards. But yeah, this is a really cool rifle. I think Savage, I love Savage. Anyway, I’m a huge fan, but man, they just killed it with these because usually if a new rimfire comes out, I’m like, whatever, it’s just a 22. But man, this one is really cool. So I think they just nailed it with these.

Wade: And I think Savage is coming into this part of the business cycle where they’re like, okay, we’re an established player in the market. We’ve been an established player in the market for a while. We have our core offering. We know the numbers on that. We know how to do that. Let’s start getting creative and start messing around with some ideas, right. Because now we can take the money that we’ve made from our core offer and start doing stuff like this. Also, they’re coming out to the suppressor space.

John: Yeah, I saw that.

Wade: And that is one thing I think from a business perspective where you can look at it a couple two ways, right? Like you have your core offer that’s going to be responsible for like 80, 90% of your business. You dial that in and then you can expand. You can just focus on that and then just keep making that better and then keep expanding that market. Or you can take some of that money and you can start playing around with something creative, and then maybe hit a home run with something like this, because I think they’re going to sell a lot of these.

John: I think so too. Well, especially frankly, just the 1022 used to be a cheap Walmart rifle. And like, they’re not a cheap rifle anymore. Like the 1022 price point is pretty close to this.

Wade: Yeah, that’s like it right now. Msrp Ruger 1022 takedown. Do you think it’s an accident that Savage Arms is? I don’t.

John: Think so.

Wade: Is $10 cheaper? No. Right. It’s 439.

John: I’m going to say I’m going to.

Wade: Buy one of these. Unless Savage Arms wants to send it to me and I’ll do a review on it.

John: I’m going to say like I wouldn’t turn it down, you know, um, give this.

Wade: To my son.

John: And one thing I really like about him is all my I have the Savage single, single shot, but all the rest of them have magazines. And the one thing that I wish Savage did, and it might not be possible because one of them is an autoloader. One is a a bolt gun, but they don’t have interchangeable mags. They’re completely different magazine design. They don’t even look similar.

Wade: Between what?

John: Between my bolt action Savage 22 and my semi-automatic Savage 22. They’re completely different, and I like the tubular magazine that’s built into the gun. You’re not going to lose it. Is that what this.

Wade: This has the. Yeah, it’s just the tube magazine. What does that hold?

John: It’s got 12 plus one for the 22, and then the two magnums are gonna be nine plus one. Got it. And frankly, there is a safety factor I really like about both levers and bolt guns so that when you shoot it, you can drop the hammer on it and safely keep one in the chamber. And it can’t do anything until you manually cock the hammer back. Now, obviously it cocks back. It’s like a double action every time you you cycle it with the lever. But you know, when you’re teaching your kids. I like having that either a bolt or a lever gun where I can, I know, like if they haven’t cycled my bolt, a bolt action rifle, that there’s no live round in the chamber until they do that. I really like the single shot for that because when it’s done it’s they have to manually load it semi-auto. It’s ready to go. And when you’re teaching kids, like even though they you told them gun safety like it’s a different matter having them on the range. And I really like that safety factor where I can know that even if there’s one in the chamber, like on the lever gun, I can manually drop the hammer. We can talk about the next shot, think about it instead of having it just ready to go. So I really do like that.

Wade: It’s a great father son, father daughter gun. It’s just. Yes. It’s just I’m going to I’m actually going to buy one of these instead of the Ruger ten. Yeah, I just decided and that’s the problem with this podcast is that I review these things. And then I either say that people either send them to me or I own or I go buy them myself. I’m like, okay, we’re going to go.

John: This one is definitely one. I’ll probably go with one of the magnums on this one, since I already have so many 22 long rifles. Magnums would be really good for my coyote problem out here too, without blowing my eardrums out like my ah, so at least that’s how I’m going to justify it.

Wade: I like it and as always, SavageArms.com. Very easy to get it. All right. Let’s anything else that we want to talk about on that one and move on to our next conversation.

John: I guess we’re both buying those. We should, each by a different model though, so that one has the deluxe and has the standard so we can compare notes.

Wade: I like it, or if Savage Arms wants to send them to us, then they just. I’ll take either one. That’s fine with me. 22 though. Gotta be 22. So for me. So maybe they’ll send me the 22 and they’ll send you the the mag.

John: I’m not picky.

Wade: Me either. All right, let’s move on to the next. Now, this one actually is. I would like to have them send this to me. Barrett firearms. This would be fun.

John: I’m going to be honest. Last night I was reading over. I was doing the read ahead last night while I was laying in bed around 1130, and I was just like glossing over this one. I’m like, okay, this is just a presser from Barrett. And then I got to the bottom. I’m like, wait, wait, 30 millimeter rifle, what is this thing? Because I saw the picture and it looks like something out of Starship Troopers. They’re not real clear on much in there. This is a joint effort between Barrett and then this Mars Inc.. I looked them up. They have a not a lot. Their website is pretty small, but they’ve done a ultra low recoil 7.62 by five one. Nato battle rifle. So this guy is going to be in the works. Next FY and then FY 26. And it looks like a grenade launcher on steroids. I definitely want to know what all these rounds do.

Wade: It’s like Hawkeye for the Avengers, right? Where every arrow in his quiver does a different thing. So yes, I want to know which one of these. These is the glue round that just throws glue over everything.

John: I’m just looking at them. I don’t think there’s any glue rounds. Come on. I’m pretty sure these are all kinetic. So.

Wade: Yeah, we’re talking about the Barrett Firearms squad support rifle system SSRS that we cannot get. But the our men and women in the armed forces will get to play around with this thing. And I find out what’s interesting with this is that I don’t know if you’ve been watching any of the footage from the Ukraine conflict, but the like, they’re actually engaged in like, trench warfare. So it’s like what is very World War One ish. Yeah. What’s old is new again. And something like this to where you could start putting very quickly these rounds into a trench from a little farther away than because these guys are like neck and neck with each other, but accurately put these things in there from far away would really cause a problem for the other team, you know what I mean? Like, it would really be a game changer from that. These things look pretty sick.

John: Okay, so I actually went to the firearm blog. I googled it and they actually have a little bit better article on it that’s way more detailed. And so it’s actually part of the 30 millimeter precision grenadier system. So that’s what it is.

Wade: It’s basically grenadier isn’t it.

John: Grenader I always heard it was Grenadier. Maybe it’s grenade.

Wade: You it’s your grenade from Grenada.

John: Grenada.

Wade: Grenade. Getting some Grenache with the Grand Marnier. Yes.

John: All right. So it is. So it’s a grenade launcher. Semi-automatic. That’s what it is. And it is using a vortex optics. Where’d it go? Xm 157 Fire Control unit one by 1 to 8 by 30 optic with some military only toys. So vortex got the nod for this one, and.

Wade: I never was in the military, so you probably know the correct pronunciation for grenade.

John: I don’t know anything. I wasn’t a door kicker. This is actually cool. The Picatinny rail slopes down to the end of the handguard, so it starts thicker above the action and it goes down. So because this is supposed to be shot at an angle obviously since it’s a grenade. So okay so what this is not a rifle. This is a 30 millimeter semi-automatic grenade launcher. So you could definitely hunt T-rexes with it. So that’s good to know. I like it.

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John: Nice. It’s got a five round single stack box mag. It is obviously. Well, the trigger, the safety and the grip are all standard M4. A lot of these weapons, and it looks like it’s got a Luthor, so Luthor stock on it. It’s a standard R stock. It’s very r like turbo R in appearance because they’re they’re doing everything. They’re creating a lot of squad weapons to keep them consistent. So you’re not having to relearn different fire control systems.

Wade: Yeah. Well, and that’s one thing about the M4 right. Like, it’s like so interchangeable with everything is if you’re on that platform basically it has a lot of you can make it reach out and touch someone all the way down to the close.

John: And it’s a good model. The reason why they’re doing it, because, you know, the Army and the Marines, this is going to be a door kicker. Weapon is targeting 18 to 20 year old young men. And you’re going to teach them a whole bunch of weapon systems in a very short period of time and expect them to become proficient and safe with them. So if you can reduce the variables and have all of their weapons or the bulk of their weapons have common controls and a common grip, that’s a huge win. But also a lot of these kids have never didn’t grow up shooting their Savage rimfire. No experience.

Wade: Well, and but another part of it, too is like from a logistical standpoint, right? Like easier to maintain, easier supply. And again, I’m a total civilian. I never served and I always want to make sure that that anyone that did, I’m sure it will come after me. For what I don’t know, but this is just a layman’s part of the beauty of this podcast is that I give the voice to the layman. Yes, yes. And so but yeah. And and the thing is about these two, it’s like I wonder though, like how long before these are just on robots, right. Like that. They just are going to start to build these into these little robots running around the battlefield shooting these things.

John: It seems to me like there was a franchise of movies about that. Maybe there was time travel involved. I don’t know, I’m not sure.

Wade: I’m not. That sounds like a silly. That sounds like a no one would ever go watch that movie.

John: That definitely wasn’t made in 1984, starring a prominent bodybuilder that didn’t speak much English.

Wade: Definitely no one would go. Nobody would go watch that. No. Um, yeah, but that thing just looks it. That thing just looks cool. And also too, it’s like it’s come so far from when you see, like back in the day. Back in the day, back in the day grenade launchers, which is like the single shot.

John: Yeah. The 79 and the M203.

Wade: With the sight that’s like the. Yeah. The long it’s just like a long, like metal rod is the sight. You’re guessing.

John: Totally guessing a lot of Kentucky windage involved.

Wade: Yeah. And yeah, that thing just looks like a very bad day for someone else on the other end of that thing.

John: Well, I know what they’re trying to do is make the a grenade launcher. That is actually a precise weapon that could wreak a lot of havoc on an enemy position to be able to accurately drop a bunch of different types of grenades quickly, to be able to just pop one after another. And it’s just a standard box mag. So you deplete your first box mag and pop another one in.

Wade: And yeah, and then you can have the mags labeled with tape or like this mag is going to be whatever. Yeah. Well, and in this also too, it’s like if you’re trying to clear a house or something like think about how easy this makes throwing a grenade through the window. Just you just shoot it in there.

John: If you do it 50 yards away and then go clear the house and whatever’s left of the inhabitants.

Wade: Yeah, exactly. So that that’s this thing looks pretty sick.

John: The next topic is pretty cool. I dig this one. If you’re ready to move on to it, I am.

Wade: I can just stare at this grenade launcher all day long. I’m never going to be able to shoot, but yeah.

John: All right. So this one is all right. How do you say it? Is it Faxon?

Wade: Faxon.

John: All right. Cool.

Wade: Faxon firearms.

John: All right, so this is a new. I think it’s a pretty new. It’s not a wildcat. It’s just an AR round. It uses a standard AR lower. So it’s another one of those. And from the looks of it, it looks like it uses a 7.62 by three nine mag. It’s like a weird shaped mag, but it might be its own. So it’s the 338 AAC. So AAC and it’s.

Wade: Just a barrel.

John: It’s believed there.

Wade: Oh it’s a barrel okay. Upper yeah.

John: And they’re going to do complete firearms too. Yeah. So the three there’s nothing really new about it. It’s still just it’s an R, but. So the 338 arc is a real thumper. So it is similar to the 300 blackout. That’s the the concept here delivers one and a half times more energy than the 300 blackout subsonic, while maintaining reliable cycling for both super and Sub. So check this out. Cartridge has two configurations by Hornady right now. One is a 307 grain subsonic.

Wade: How did they do that?

John: It’s just massive dude. You can see the picture of it. It is a massive slug. Well, so 300 blackout subsonic rounds are like 220 grains. Like they’re pretty heavy. So this one has a 307. What are you.

Wade: Trying to shoot like a rhinoceros with that thing?

John: Subsonic. It might be just for pigs. Or since it’s subsonic, it’s not going to blow your eardrums out. Oh yeah. Because it’s not.

Wade: Going very fast. It’s. Yeah. Because it’s.

John: But they’re supersonic is 175 grains. It’s so it’s they say this revolutionary 338 cartridge is designed to fit a AR 15 and micro bolt action. So savage and Ruger have Ruger has the ranch rifle the micros. So they use the 7.62 by 3.9 300 blackout. I think Savage has a similar lineup and there are some higher end ones too, but those are the more consumer grade.

Wade: I am not knowledgeable at all when it comes to ammunition at all. I’m like, I’m very in the like nine millimeter or the 338. Like when you start getting into the blackout stuff and all that, I actually don’t know a lot about it.

John: All right. So 300 blackout is actually it was more it’s ideally suited for are pistols. It’s not really ideal. Its ballistic profile is better for pistols for short barrel or SBR. And it was really made. It was made really to be a suppressed round. So it was it’s a subsonic. They make supersonic and subsonic, but they’ve been adapted for a lot. So they’re very popular for especially in places with deep woods for shooting whitetail not so much in the plains here, but especially out east where the whitetail are a lot smaller than they are here, and they are a lot smaller out there than here. They are really popular for chip shots. They have a really similar ballistic profile to a 3030, but it you just slap it on any, ah, upper or lower and basically have very little recoil. And then the subsonics are great for ah, pistols and sbrs. So a subsonic round with a with a suppressor. It has ballistics really comparable to like a a 45 ACP plus P. So a high pressure and but with a suppressor they basically make no noise. So that’s what they were made to do. So it looks to me like this is going to be a similar vein, an easily the a really heavy subsonic to use with a suppressor. I’m not really sure what. You probably shoot pigs with it, although I’d probably want the subsonic for deeper penetration. Like I said, it says one and a half times the energy of the of the blackout. So that thing really hits hard. Really hard in a micro action so you can shoot it. Those micro action I think Mossberg also makes one. They’re really short action bolt actions. A lot of them only have a 16 inch barrel. So a very compact bolt action rifles and a lot of them are mags. So this can give you a whole lot of punch and still a very small package.

Wade: And if it’s a subsonic it’s not going to make a lot of noise.

John: No, it’s going to be quiet. Even coming from the rifle without a suppressor, it’s not going to be particularly loud. But with the.

Wade: Suppressor. Yeah.

John: I mean like nothing, especially if you’re shooting out of a micro bolt action. Like you won’t even hear the action cycle. Pretty cool. And I wish I’d known about the expo where they revealed it because it’s in Kansas City, but it’s already come and gone, so that’s a bummer.

Wade: Yes.

John: Next year? Yes.

Wade: Give me some gear so I can review it on my show.

John: Exactly. Let’s take a look.

Wade: I get more and more bullish on Hornady all the time.

John: Oh, Hornady is fantastic. They have done so much R&D for ammunition. They’ve done more for the ammunition industry than anyone and created so many different calibers and just they’re great company.

Wade: That’s what I carry in my everyday carry. Is our defense round. So do I. Is every day.

John: So I’m reading up on their actual 338 arc. The 338 arc uses the same 6.5 Grendel, two type bolt face or bolt carrier, so if you already have those, it’s just a barrel swap with the existing bolt carrier group to go to a 338 arc from a 6.5, and the 6.5 Grendel is very common. There’s lots and lots of those uppers and parts for them right now. Just two rounds though, it’s just a 307 grain sub X subsonic bullet and the 175 grain hollow point and Hornady black.

Wade: I didn’t know this. Hornady has a has say firearms safes. I didn’t know that. I need a new one. I need a new safe. Look. Me spending more money. All right, let’s move on to our last thing right now before everyone else falls asleep. That doesn’t care about ammunition. We’re going to go. We’re going to do a little shotgun propaganda shotguns.

John: Now, this is not your ordinary shotgun. This is the Browning 825 Sartori, and it is an overunder, and according to the American Rifleman article that we are referencing, it was it’s based off of the Browning superposed.

Wade: Oh, wait, hold on before we go, go to Facts and Firearms. Com for our last thing that we talked about. Now we’re going to go to Browning.com. All right. Go ahead.

John: All right. So it’s one of the last firearm designs that John Browning made. And they have been using it for a long time. So I guess the original Sartori came out in the 70s. It’s just an updated version of the superposed. So basically you’re still like a 1911 or an M1. A you’re still using the same mechanism that John Browning designed all those years ago. And so these are stackable. They have six different levels. So six different trims for this. The base model is a field. It’s the field model. So it’s a hunting model. And it has an MSRP of 31, 50, 26 or 28 length barrels chambered in 12 grade. 12 gauge has standard three inch chambers, removable chokes, so you can go with all the standard ones.

Wade: And then I’m looking at the 825 sartory trap max for $7,500. Look at that thing.

John: I did that thing.

Wade: Good lord. Yeah.

John: So that one comes. That’s the top of the line, 30 or 32 inch lengths. And so it’s got an adjustable, but it’s got adjustable. It’s a dual adjustable stock. So you can your what’s it called the top of the comb. I’m blanking here. You can adjust the length angle and position. There we go. Thank you. Thank you American rifleman. So yeah 7500 bucks for that high end one. I don’t have shot. I feel like.

Wade: This would be like an aristocrat gun that hangs on the wall, that you’re like, fat aristocrat is like drinking sherry in his den. And then there’s, like, some weird Mob demanding food. He’s like, I’m going to take care of this. And he goes up to get his trap Max gun off the wall to take care of this mob. He’s trying to get food from his house. And then didn’t.

John: We have a prominent politician that said he could just fire a shotgun in the air? I don’t remember.

Wade: It seems like it. Then he, like, shoots his wad with his two shots and he’s like, uh oh.

John: So the price points on these go from 3150 for the field all the way up to 7500.

Wade: They’re aesthetically like this. That’s a beautiful gun.

John: Yeah. So we started this episode today talking about aesthetics. And we’re going to finish. And this is an American.

Wade: It’s an American classic.

John: Yes. And which is really cool because in the over under shotgun market, it is largely dominated by Turkish guns and Italian guns. So Beretta has owned that market forever. So yeah, it’s cool to see this as an American gun. And it is beautiful. It is definitely a piece you would want to put on the wall for generations.

Wade: Oh, look at another sommelier. Description of the trigger. The trigger has a light pull, reduce, take up a crisp break and less over travel. Although I will say, though, that they did use the Oxford comma, which I approve of.

John: That’s really good. I still don’t know what that is, and I don’t know how to explain it to me.

Wade: I don’t know what over travel is.

John: I don’t either.

Wade: I know what a light pole. I know what the take up is. I know what the break is. But they always have to throw something in at the end that I don’t know what it is. Like splosh or over travel.

John: I was sprung.

Wade: Sprung. Oh that’s.

John: Right. I don’t think there’s any sprung in this one. I would hope for 7500 bucks. That’s worth more than, like, three of my cars.

Wade: You never want any sprung.

John: No, no. Sprung. Yeah. This is definitely probably something that will never be on my wall. But it is beautiful. And if you are Browning, like the Browning, if.

Wade: You’re a competitive trapshooter totally like. And you want to rock the trap, Max, and just roll up on your competition looking the best I can see why you’d want to do that.

John: Well, like I said, if you’re shooting 25,000 rounds a year at trap, the difference between triggers, because that’s all you do. Yeah, but for me, I am way too unrefined to ever put this through its paces. Like it would be embarrassing.

Wade: I don’t even own a trap or a bird shotgun. I just have a mossberg tactical with my shotgun.

John: I actually have a Remington 870 from Walmart from the late 90s. That’s my only shotgun.

Wade: My brother sending me, I do. I lied, I have a single shot, 20 gauge, and my dad gave me when I was for my 12th birthday and my brother’s sending that to me, so. And a couple other guns I’ve talked about before, so I lied. I do have a couple shotguns on the way, so I don’t have. Nice.

John: So I’m getting a single barrel for ten for my sons because I was like, well, I could give him a pump and the single shot or single shot, not single barrel, single shot for ten is like 120 bucks. And then the pump one is like 420. I’m like, well, you better learn to hit with one shot, boys. Well, and.

Wade: That’s a safety issue. It’s a safety issue too. Totally. Like it’s you’ve got one shot. Just take it easy, make it count. And then there’s not you’re not adding and then you’re done, right? And then like, okay, let’s reset. Let’s reset the rules again. Right. Like I’m getting ready. Go ahead.

John: Oh I was going to say I’m getting ready to go get my 14 year old daughter a Henry single shot 243 deer rifle. Like you’ll never outgrow it, but it’s got a hammer, so you have to cock it to shoot it. And once that shot’s done, it’s a safe firearm. So just breathe and put it on target and fire it. There’s a huge safety factor with those with a single shot.

Wade: And in all honesty, if you’re hunting anything with this, let’s use a shotgun as an example. Right a pump shotgun. If you’re hunting anything with a pump shotgun, very rarely do you ever get a second shot at anything anywhere. No, it’s the same if you’re hunting duck, if you’re duck hunting or whatever. Like you’re getting one shot. That’s it. That’s your shot. You know, maybe, maybe geese.

John: Because when they come in, when you pull them in, there’s so many of them. Yeah. But that’s really about the only one like pheasants and quail. Good luck. Yeah. Have you ever shot trap or skeet? Unless you’re doing doubles. If you’re just shooting singles, it’s if you don’t hit it in first shot, it’s too far. Right. And it’s the way quail are too, like. So you need to learn that first shot consistency, and to hit it with your first shot because you’re not going to get a second.

Wade: The adrenaline between the first and the second shot, for someone that doesn’t put a million rounds down range anyways, is going to screw up your next shot anyway.

John: Yep. And there’s a reason why they use double barrels for trap and skeet, because they’re only shooting doubles. So like you said, the pump is wasted on those. Really? There’s only a couple of situations where a pump makes sense anyway, so that’s my $0.02 on that. But beautiful shotguns. They are gorgeous. Go to Browning.com. I don’t know if it’s Browning.com. Let’s find out.

Wade: It is

John: Browning.com.

Wade: We covered a lot of ground today. We had like bookends on the aesthetic bookends which I like. So we didn’t do that on purpose. But we’re going to act like we did totally.

John: Do it on purpose. Absolutely did not.

Wade: Dig it I dig it. So any closing thoughts for today? Other than the fact of now I have another gun I have to buy, which is that that’s the rebel. The Savage arms. The Savage?

John: Yeah, that’s that’s my only closing thought. The. Yeah, I’ll be checking that out. Probably in the spring though, like I said, because I already have too many 22 long rifles, but I could use a 22 Magnum or a 17 Magnum if.

Wade: They send me one. I’ll do a gear review of that bad boy.

John: I’d be more than happy to review the heck out of that.

Wade: So all right, brother. Well, again, what another great episode. It’s great to see you, I hope. Is it you don’t? Is it getting cold out there yet today? We just started to have our first couple of cold days.

John: Dude, it was 88 degrees yesterday. It was hot. It was cold. We broke.

Wade: We broke record. It’s 67 to 70 today. But it was it started to get down like somewhere in the 50s yesterday. So I was like, I start I never count every year. I never count to Halloween anyway. Like it’s it doesn’t get cold till Halloween in my brain. If it’s warm past Halloween, that’s weird. Anything before Halloween, that is.

John: Uh, we were actually supposed to go camping yesterday, and the winds were gusting to 50 miles an hour, and I do not drive. I do not tow a travel trailer in those winds.

Wade: Don’t be a quitter. Don’t be a quitter, John.

John: No, there are certain. We were driving in town, and I saw a few of them. Like, you guys are nuts. Like driving a trout, because they’re not heavy. It’s just it’s a sail. It’s like a sailboat. And I’ve driven in 30 before, and it’s just miserable. It’s unpleasant. So anyway, I said, hey, I’d love to get in one more camping trip before the end of the season, but it ain’t worth that. And when it’s 15 mile an hour, gusts like you don’t, you can’t even do anything at the campsite anyway. You’re just getting pelted with rocks. So I was like, we’ll just stay home anyway. That has nothing to do with what we were talking about.

Wade: Still, we started with a little personal anecdote about me. Now we’re ending one with you. It’s the bookends I love it.

Wade: All right, brother, I appreciate you. Yep. All right, once again, Tactical Business Podcast with John McCoy and.

John: Hosted by a gold medalist.

Wade: I do have a gold medalist. Yes, I do have a gold medal over there. Thank you. All right, man. Cool. Take it easy. You’ve been listening to the Tactical Business Show by TacticalPay.com. Join us again next episode as we explore what it takes to be a business success in the firearms industry.