Tactical Headlines with John McCoy – JAN. 25, 2024

About This Episode

In our first episode of the Tactical Headlines series on The Tactical Business Show, host Wade Skalsky sits down with John McCoy to highlight a few important headlines in the Firearm industry. From forecasting a huge growth in the ammunition market to instantly detecting guns with AI. Don’t miss this engaging episode where John and Wade chat through the most recent updates in the industry.

Insights In This Episode

• Ammunition Market Expected to Grow at a CAGR of 4.29% from 2022 to 2027, Reaching USD 5.17 Billion (Technavio.com)
• AI System with Instant Gun Detection Capability (ZeroEyes.com)
• Henry Repeating Arms Introduces Youth Shooting Sports & Hunting Safety Guide (HenryUSA.com)
• Americas Hunting Equipment Market to Increase by USD 733.75 Million from 2022 to 2027, Driven by Key Players like Academy Sports and Outdoors Inc., American Outdoor Brands Inc., and TenPoint Crossbow Technologies (Technavio.com)
• Introducing the Springfield Armory Hellcat Pro OSP Threaded (Springfield-Armory.com)

About Tactical Business

Tactical Business is the weekly business show for the firearms industry. The podcast features in-depth interviews with the entrepreneurs, professionals and technologists who are enabling the next generation of firearms businesses to innovate and grow.

Episode Transcript

Wade: Welcome to the Tactical Business Show. I’m your host, Virginia Beach based firearms entrepreneur and copywriter Wade Skalsky. Each episode will be exploring what it takes to thrive as a business owner in the firearms industry. We’ll speak with successful firearms industry entrepreneurs about their experiences building their companies, leaders and legislators who are shaping the industry, and tech executives whose innovations will reshape the future of the firearms industry. Let’s get after it. Welcome to the Tactical Business Podcast. I am your host, Wade Skalsky, and today we are bringing in a co-host, a big gun, John McCoy. John, how are you doing today, sir?

John: Good morning. And I love the pun. That was great I.

Wade: Love yeah, exactly. No pun intended. So what we’re going to do is we’ve actually done a podcast episode with you before, but in case of our visitors today have missed that, why don’t we go into your background a little bit? Let’s talk a bit about your service, what you did, what you’re doing now, all that kind of good stuff. Let’s do the quick version.

John: Well, I grew up a redneck in Kansas and shot guns a lot and and owned a bunch as a youth. And when I was 19, nine, 11 happened and I decided to enlist, joined the Air Force I was in for about 13 years, was an aircraft mechanic for most of that. And then I did some other admin stuff after that. And I’m working for the Department of the Army. All in all, my DoD service is about two decades, and I decided that it was time to move along. It just wasn’t really what I wanted to do anymore. I was in aviation, which I’d always wanted to be a pilot that didn’t work out, didn’t want to do it, got bored with the industry and decided I wanted a little bit more personal freedom. And along the way I’d started writing as a part time thing. And about three years ago, I made it a full time thing. And I specialize in search engine optimized blog posts, growing corporate blogs, writing blog articles, and web content. So that’s my jam. And some of my clients are firearm clients.

Wade: I like to say you’re in the chat vertical.

John: Yes, yes, that was a great I can’t remember if you coined that or who coined it, but that’s a that is great. That is it is a chat vertical for sure.

Wade: And I never want to talk to you about aircraft maintenance or anything going on with aircraft, because it will make me never want to fly again. I’m naturally a nervous flyer, so I.

John: Actually am too.

Wade: I’m sure you. I’m sure you are.

John: When you see it out there, you’re like, if they ever offered an incentive flight. When I was working on bombers, I was always like, I think I’d want to do it, but I actually know what goes on behind the scenes. I’m not totally sure I want to.

Wade: Yeah, no, it’s yeah, ignorance is bliss in that situation for sure. For real? Well, the purpose of bringing you on is I wanted to have another voice, someone with a lot of experience. And obviously you’re different. You have a different perspective than I do. I’m a civilian. I’ve never served. I do come from a hunting culture in North Dakota, but I’m relatively in terms of in my life coming to guns. I’m late more than most people, right, in terms of really getting into firearms and in terms of what I do. So I think the two of us will be able to have kind of two different unique perspectives on some of the things that are going on right now. So let’s start with you. What’s catching your eye this week? What are some of the things that you’ve been seeing that you want to chat about? To start with.

John: We’ll start with this article that you sent me from Technavio. I think this is actually this ties into a whole lot of things, especially the whole gun control talk that that gets floated around all the time. But money doesn’t lie. Okay, so what they’re saying now is a Kate, I don’t know how to say cager or cager, but anyway, the compound annual growth rate 4%. If you look at this, it’s a $5 billion annual industry. It’s ammunition. So feeding the guns first off, there’s too many guns to ever never going to get confiscated. But second off, I think the growth indicator here is you’re seeing $5 billion industry annually. That’s only going up. That’s a real tell of what the industry is doing. No Moms Demand Action or any other organization is slowing down that big train. Okay? $5 billion industries don’t get shut down by executive orders, okay? That’s not going to happen. So that is catching my eye right now because and I’m I’m old enough to remember the after Sandy hook, the ammunition scares where you couldn’t buy anything. I’d go into Walmart at six in the morning after I got done with my paper route to see if they had anything, and there was a line out of the sporting goods section, 50 people long waiting for the ammo shipment to come in. It’s not going anywhere. People get into scares like that. I’m like, just stop, all right? Just chill out. It’s not going anywhere. But you guys have never heard of lobbyists, okay? This is not going anywhere.

Wade: Yeah. And a couple of things I look at this graph in terms of the market size, right. If you look at just the projections, but as well as as far back as like 2017, it is a linear line of growth. What that means is that it’s not going up and down like there’s not a big ton of demand, and then it falls off and then a ton of demand. And there’s not volatility in the industry. Right. So in terms of ammunition it’s just there’s this linear growth. And I think that’s in alignment with some stats came out now where I think for the first time ever more households in the United States own firearms than don’t. Right. So we’re over that threshold of half the households in the United States. And that’s just one firearm, right? So firearms are like tattoos. Once you get one, you’re going to end up getting you don’t know anyone with one tattoo, right. Very rarely. No. Very rarely doesn’t exist. Exactly. So and also and I think you made a really good point where it’s the money is Washington runs on money and especially too with what’s going on right now in the world. There’s a lot of in terms of conflicts going on. And one thing that people are going to need obviously, is ammunition. So however you feel politically about those things, they need to be fed. So that’s all.

John: There is to it.

Wade: Yeah. Their forecast might actually even be conservative actually considering everything that’s going on in the world.

John: Hey, absolutely think so. Especially the variable that they don’t talk about. Their 2024 is an election. You know how that goes. We don’t have to go into the. If you looked at it from 2008 particularly and up every election year, particularly if it’s a blue gun and ammunition goes through the roof, they’re the best salesman. Everyone knows it. That’s just a lay person’s analysis. So but yeah, you’re absolutely right. That is linear growth. There are no valleys there. There’s no peaks and valleys. That’s all growth. So and that’s the real indicator of what’s going on in the industry, I think. And like I said, I think that ammunition is almost a better indicator because no matter if people stopped buying guns, they still have to buy ammunition to feed their existing firearms. So you can see if that’s continuing to grow, then the industry. And to the point you were saying about crossing over that midpoint threshold. I actually saw an article yesterday and it’s done on our list. But Ohio became an open carry state, and I think it was a backwards article. It was trying to paint this as a bad thing, that they joined the bandwagon of constitutional carry states. But the headline was that that gun related crimes have dropped like that’s a feature, not a bug, you know.

Wade: Well, and I think it was concealed carry that you could conceal carry without a permit. Right. So because I.

John: Think is that what it was.

Wade: Yeah. Basically. And so and I think that just makes sense. I think the criminals are going to be a lot more worried if they have to worry about if a person has a gun or not. It’s just as a natural deterrent psychologically. So yeah. Well, and I think I want to get shot.

John: Right.

Wade: Nobody wants to get shot. Yeah. Exactly. A good thing that you talk about too is that when people start to get a little freaked out about confiscation, when people start to get a little worried about sort of gun laws and all of that is that you do need a very strong lobby to fight for those rights and a strong states to in terms of federalism, because this is the next thing I wanted to talk about. I was looking on, um, Zeroeyes.com and they have an article about they have the AI system that instantly detects guns. Right. So now that’s good in terms of if you have an active shooter situation or your your law enforcement or your the military and you’re trying to figure out exactly where someone is, that’s great. But that also, too, is that type of software is going to change the game in terms of being able to, depending on how far it goes. And I think it’s a positive because just like guns, AI is neutral, it’s just how you use it. The cool thing about what Zeroeyes, the way that they’re positioning it is they’re getting ahead of it by saying, hey, we’re going to look at this so that it’s something to prevent mass shootings. It’s something that prevent gun related violence. And so I think from that perspective, as long as we have the strong guidelines in place, I think it could be used as a good thing, I think.

John: So I read the article and I see where they came from. So it said that one of the founders, their daughter, was doing an active shooter drill after parkland. And basically the question was raised, hey, what are you even using your cameras for? And they’re like, we don’t know if someone gets in a fistfight. We’ll figure out who it was and throw them out of school for three days. And that is wholly insufficient to restore after Nashville. And or was it Nashville? Whichever one in Tennessee. And then the of course, I see where you’re talking about, though, when you get outside of the school and as you and I both know, as tech gets cheaper, then everyone starts buying in this because it will cost less and less. And then you have there are cascading effects, I think, but it’s not really an issue. I think that if you’re going into a place that is already posted, that it’s a no gun zone you probably shouldn’t carry, and that’s going to give them the ability to quickly identify someone. Of course, it doesn’t really make sense if it’s concealed or I don’t think there’s any way they can sense that it’s only going to be able to send something that’s in the open, which is concealed carry, right?

Wade: You talked about it as well too, and I think it’s something that’s really important is that you’re talking about I was thinking about the airplane stuff. Right. Like, you know how the sausage is made, right? So everyone has this idea that the Air Force and the armed forces and the police are this expert monolith of highly trained ninjas who can get everything done. Now, there are guys like that, and I know some of them, but there are not very many guys like that. And when you start to as you start to expand out within the military, within the police forces, within the government, within just your normal local school, the drop off is incredible in terms of people’s awareness, tactics, ability to use communications, ability to use technology. So something like this that can compress time frames for a school or for something for a police agency or something to use when there’s a problem, actually could really save lives. So I think from that perspective, I think it’s a very positive development, and I think it’s something that can that actually will have a lot of application, I think.

John: So I think you’re absolutely right in that. And you’re right, there is this facade about everyone being a Green Beret in the military. I’m like, that is so far from the truth. All right. And it spills over knowing, having known a number of cops, especially in the guard, we had a bunch of cops that were also in the guard kind of goes together. They verify that they’re like, there are so many screw ups in the department. So yeah, anything like that, you’re absolutely right. You can compress time frames where you can give accurate analysis and pass it off to responders quickly. Yeah.

Wade: That’s I agree. I think that’s a really interesting technology that we’re going to watch. We’re going to see where that’s going to go. All right. What else caught your eye this week I.

John: Like the Springfield Armory Hellcat very sleek. It’s just this is just a threaded version with the optics I myself I’m not an optics guy on handguns just because I think the statistics are generally that if you’re in an engagement that requires a handgun, you’re usually within five feet of the person. Now, I will say it was a Hellcat that the guy used to eradicate the mall shooter in Indianapolis a couple years ago. I’m not sure if he had an optic or not, but it was a Hellcat, so that was cool.

Wade: Was that the guy that was in the food court? 19 year old kid or 21 year old kid or something? Quick drew and put 12 rounds on. Target from. Yeah. I put like miles away. Yeah.

John: The dude was like. It was like 80ft away and he just dropped him. So he used a Hellcat for that big fan.

Wade: And I don’t care. And we’re. And you’re talking about firearmsnews.com, right. The review.

John: Yes. Yeah.

Wade: Yeah, yeah. So the Hellcat is a cool gun. There’s a former Green Beret and then which is Clay. Clay, right. In one of his books he talks about this is one of the concealed carry guns that he recommends.

John: So I remember he tweeted about that he had to a pit bull attack and he was carrying a Hellcat and had to defend his kid.

Wade: So yeah. Well, that’s it’s one of those things where it made me want to go test it out at the range. Right. So but I run I run a Glock like it’s an old timey battleship, right. Like I don’t it’s got, it’s a its iron sights are nothing for me on that thing. But this does look like a sexy gun. I like that gun.

John: It is sexy. That’s why I like it. But I will say, as far as optics go, I just. I just don’t see their place on pistols. Everyone wants to look and dress like they’re on the teams and like you’re not on the teams. All right. For 99.999% of applications, irons are all you need in a handgun because anything else, you’re just that’s just another thing you’ve got to turn on, replace batteries on, just use irons.

Wade: Well, but I do understand the counterargument though, because let’s say that you are not a teams guy and you’re very far away from the teams, which is 99.99% of people. The first thing to go when that adrenaline starts going is fine motor, right? That’s true. And so it does. And if you’re not ammunitions more expensive, and if you’re not training on the range of weekly and putting a lot of rounds down range is that you may not have the muscle memory to use iron sights effectively in that situation. Right. Yeah. Now go ahead.

John: Oh, I agree with you on that one because the fine motor is the first thing to go. You’re absolutely right.

Wade: So I always said like and I always say to myself I was like I want to become an expert at the iron sights first though. And I’m not there yet. So I still feel like I need 10,000 more rounds through my gun, you know, through my everyday carry gun on the iron sights. And then maybe I’ll think about going a little Gucci with some kind of red dot or something. So.

John: Well, the good thing is, the longer you wait, the cheaper a decent sight gets. Yeah, because that is the good thing that as these are becoming super, super common, every major manufacturer has sight bases for their semi-auto pistols now, which that even five years ago that was not a thing like you had to go with the Gucci high end pistols that come out of like Smith and Wesson’s Performance shop and all that stuff. And now it’s it’s standard. Yeah. So which is I think really cool. So and then the sights are dropping in price too. So and it doesn’t matter. They co-witness. So you can you see your iron through them. So if your battery’s out it’s not like you’re dead in the water.

Wade: Well I just changed my batteries twice a year. I do it at Christmas and then I do it in the summer. I know that I don’t have to do that, but because I do have a red dot, I have a red dot blue dot sight on my AR. Because my wife is red green colorblind, she cannot actually see the red dot. So if I want my wife to be doing Overwatch, I just she’s got to have a blue dot on there so she can cover me as I run to get the chickens or whatever it is that I’m doing.

John: I’ll throw a quick plug in there that a Prism sight is a great alternative for that, since she’s colorblind because the glass is actually etched on those. So it’s got the dot, but it’s etched. So even if there’s no light, you can still see the crosshairs.

Wade: So I was told we were one of the rules. John was no math on today’s podcast, right?

John: No mathing. All right. No.

Wade: No math thing or no maths as the British people like to say maths. We’re not handling the math. So yeah. And back to this, this Hellcat. It does make me want to take a look at it because. So I started with a Glock 17 because I’m 642 20 I was like, oh I can carry a Glock 17. No you can’t carry. It’s you can but it’s not concealed carry. Right. Every day you’re clothing option is a math problem if you want to try to do it a conceal. And so then obviously you come down to the 19 right. And the 19 dose is still a decent size. Right. So because I think how small. No. But I think the Hellcat is actually smaller. So they did solve the ammo problem with the Hellcat a little bit. So I do think it’s a super interesting gun. And I like how firearmsnews.com Just lays it out. Like they don’t fanboy it, but they just they just they don’t fanboy it. Too bad. It is a cool gun though.

John: I was actually shooting Springfield’s the was their base model. I can’t even remember what it’s called. The first real opponent of the Glock. I can’t remember what it’s called, but their base model gun. I was shooting that back in like 2002 and three and really liked them, and they’ve really established themselves as a major player in the market. So I and I think they’re innovative and that which is really cool. Oh the XD duh, I had to Google it. Had a major senior moment there. It’s worth.

Wade: It. It’s worth it. Google. Yeah, and it’s an American company too.

John: Right now. You know the origins of their guns though, right? They’re Croatian.

Wade: I did not know that.

John: Yeah, they were originally. They’re not now. But the old the Zs were actually a Croatian gun that they, they brought over and they rebadged.

Wade: So but Springfield itself is not a Croatian company. It was always an American company. You’re talking about the XT the XT.

John: Yeah.

Wade: Yeah yeah, yeah. Okay.

John: So and they’re 18 elevens I think were Turkish like like everyone’s beyond like the major, the ones that are $1,000, their entry level 19 elevens I think were Turkish. But yeah, the XD was actually a Croatian pistol and they bought the rights to it and rebadged it well and.

Wade: And the thing is too, is that the reason why I use the Glock is because my firearms instructor is a Glock guy. So that’s why I was like, what do I buy? Right? And he’s the guy that started me on this journey. He was a former police officer and he was a marine, and I think he still has the same Glock that he used on his same duty Glock. It might be like a Gen two, I don’t know. It is it is like I think he just leaves it in a puddle outside. Right. That’s that’s where he he doesn’t have a holster for it. He just lays it on the ground. It’s so dirty. He never cleans it. And he’s just like just round after round on that thing. So I was like, okay, so we’ll start there and then. So I’m resisting the urge to go anything else until I, I can’t say master my Glock, but until I’m relatively competent in it, there’s 10,000 rounds probably.

John: There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Glock. It’s the Toyota Camry of cars. And it’s like, well, do you want flash? Or if there’s an assailant, do you want to neutralize the threat because the Glock is going to neutralize the threat? All right. Yeah. And the odds of it malfunctioning are extraordinarily low.

Wade: So especially if you clean it every once in a while. Yeah.

John: If you actually bothered to throw some CLP on it, it’ll really perform well.

Wade: I like cleaning my gun. It’s a meditative practice. It’s like one of the few task it is. It’s one of the few times where you’re just it’s like the smell and you’re doing it and knowing, you know. Yeah, because I don’t clean it around my kids, you know what I’m saying? And so like, like I just clean it and it’s just it’s like one of the few times my wife will leave me alone. I’m like, I’m going to go clean the gun. She’s like, okay, go clean the gun. You know, it’s code for anyway. So leave me alone for the next, next 20 minutes.

John: No, it really is. I enjoy it too. I’m not very, like, good about it. Like, I think only about 50% success rate of actually cleaning my guns at any given shooting session.

Wade: This episode is brought to you by TacticalPay.com. Every few years, it seems large banks and national credit card processors suddenly decide that they no longer want to process payments for firearms and firearms related businesses, and so they drop these businesses with almost no notice, freezing tens of thousands of dollars in payments for months on end. If you want to ensure your partner with a payments provider that is dedicated to supporting the firearms industry, or you just want to find out if you could be paying less for your ACH, debit and credit card processing, visit TacticalPay.com. Again, that’s TacticalPay.com. We want to set a good example. So talking about setting a good example. So I was looking at Prnewswire.com and they have this article about Henry repeating arms launches youth shooting sports and hunting safety video guide for families. So now this I think this is super cool because if you this is my personal experience. So I don’t know if this was your experience or not. But I talk about this probably every podcast. I talk about it just because it’s had such a big impact on me. But my dad gave me a shotgun for my birthday. I took hunter safety classes as a kid, so guns never scared me. And the rules that I learned the rule, like the heuristic of the gun is always loaded. I’m 51 and so in my life, at least three times someone has handed me a quote, unloaded gun that was loaded and I have unloaded and they were like. And the shock on all their faces when I did that once, I must have been 13 years old, right? And an adult handed me a loaded gun and it was part of a they were showing or whatever, and I unloaded it for them. I’ve had former military guys hand me unloaded guns, but that weren’t unsafe. And so when you I know don’t get me started. So I’m like, this is a nice ah maybe you should store it on safe even though there’s no bullets in it. But yeah, just give.

John: Rule of thumb.

Wade: No pun intended on the safety. Oh, God. We’ll be here all week. No, but I think if you get those rules ingrained into you as a kid, it is indoctrinating. It increases the safety you’ll have around firearms for your whole life.

John: That is absolutely true. And I think that’s very responsible of them. And apparently that the host of it is a trick shooter, which I just find to be really cool. I’m gonna check out his YouTube channel after I get off of here, and after I do the work that pays the bills. Which means I’ll probably watch his videos first, right? Right. But yeah, I grew up that way. My dad wasn’t a hunter, but we always had lots of guns, and I’ve done that with my kids. In fact, actually one of my guns. One little 22 Savage 22 we keep for raccoons. Keep it just right, hanging up at the coat rack right by the door. And it’s interesting. I check it about once a week to make sure that no one has slipped the magazine in, but I know where it is too. Just as a habit, I always just check it, but when it’s been in the kind of public eye just sitting there, the kids don’t have that curiosity. They know it’s loaded. I’ve taught them how to shoot it. They don’t ever mess with it. When you familiarize your children with firearms and firearm safety, it is absolutely second nature. And it also does eliminate a lot of that curiosity that gets a lot of kids shot. Unfortunately, they can’t be a taboo thing. It needs to be. We have firearms in the house because they’re going to be naturally inclined to be curious about them. Like, why are they so secret? Why is Mom and Dad so secret? Why is it locked away? Oh, it’s not locked away. Cool. But when it’s just a regular part of life and you talk about it openly and teach them openly, you have a lot safer household. Do you keep.

Wade: It loaded by the door? No. Okay, okay. That’s what I wanted to make sure I was like, because you’re going to get some serious pushback. Yeah, yeah. Well, no, but yeah, but absolutely. So we used to drive around in North Dakota and you everybody would have shotguns on the rack in the back of their truck. Right. And so I’m in Virginia now and I’ve never seen a rack in the back of the truck like that. And I’m in southern Virginia, in Virginia Beach and maybe out in Pungo or out there, you would see that. But when it’s the culture, you’re like, you’re exactly right. It’s not like finding something. It’s not like finding like something, finding a block of cocaine or something, right? Like, oh, what’s this? Right. You know. Oh, cool. Yeah, exactly. And then the other thing too, I think, is that it makes it generational. Yes. So the household that you grew up in is the household that when you have kids, you naturally just like, oh, we’re going to do the same thing, right. Yes. And so and I think one of the through lines for all of these things that we’re talking about is the importance of the right to bear arms and the importance that, that be protected. And one of the ways that you protect it is teach your children about guns so that they can’t be propagandized by the forces that want to take people’s right to self-defense away from them.

John: That’s absolutely right, because your kids are being a voting age before it. It happens because I have one that is now and it’s like blink of an eye. And you’re absolutely right. They are prey to that negative action, the negative action groups, if they’ve never been shown hey, this is a tool. There are safety rules. You abide by the safety rules, but it is not. It’s just a tool and it becomes part of their lifestyle. That is not an inherently evil thing. It’s not an inherently dangerous thing. The most dangerous thing on the planet are human beings. And the gun is certainly well, you were a prosecutor that it’s no more dangerous than a hammer or a screwdriver or God knows what else. So weaving that into your family culture is absolutely very important. So I think that’s what’s what I like about seeing programs like this is that they take a lot of the guesswork out of it, because there are a lot of you’ve seen it, and as you see more and more households, guns actually did some writing on this for a small project a couple of years ago. It was out of the Bay area, actually. Legal firearm usage is growing quickly there because of the rampant crime, and you’re getting people, including from the left or from at least Democrats who are buying them because even they are like, hey, this is not what I signed up for. They’re living in cities and they’re like, hey, this is unlivable now, and I’m scared. So you need to have programs that are going to usher them in and say, hey, this isn’t you didn’t sign up for the Michigan Militia just because you bought a. Henry repeating. Okay, we’re going to teach you how to do this the right way. And because a lot of people don’t have any idea, there are a lot of people in these United States that have never touched a gun, and they’re absolutely terrified of them.

Wade: Because they think every gun is a machine gun, right? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I think you see these videos of people posted on Twitter about this is what, an AR round this is what a five, five, six round does to the human body. And it’s like some someone exploding from being shot by a cannon. Right. Exactly. You referenced my time as a prosecutor. And there’s two things to that is that I’ve read thousands and thousands of police reports as my time, both as a prosecutor and as a defense attorney. And I can tell you that I have never, ever, once ever seen the police stop a home invasion, stop a robbery, whatever. It’s all over before they ever get there. Maybe like one time there was an officer that just happened to come on some. And obviously an active shooter situation is different because the person stays there and then they whatever. But I’m talking about like your day to day crime where someone’s going to carjack you or someone’s gonna come in your home or whatever. It’s like, I’ve never read a police report ever, where the police stopped it. It’s always happen. No, it’s always coming in after and catching the person. Right? Yeah. So if you want your children to have luck, be their defense that they’re just not going to be part of the statistics. Right. So that okay. Well, so 99% of the people or 95% of people never violent crime. So let’s just hope they’re part of that 95%. Well, that is a strategy because like you said is you don’t want them afraid of it. You want them to be able to, just like you said, treat it like a natural thing.

Wade: And then the other thing too is like, I don’t think this is talked about enough, which is it’s part of American heritage. It’s part of our history. The normal people that couldn’t afford to have a business on the East Coast or that weren’t part of that elite, they’re like, all right, fine, there’s free land out there. Great. So it’s dangerous. There’s things are going to kill me, I don’t care. They just went out there with a gun and they’re like, they made it work. And a lot of them didn’t make it. But we are the descendants of the ones that did. And so there’s so much confusion in the United States right now about our history. And people are like, let’s take down these statues and all that. I’m like, that’s a mistake. But the one thing, though, that is for sure, that you can teach your children about is the heritage of gun ownership in the United States, its importance, and that it is part of our ethos. And I think that’s one thing. I love seeing stuff like this on this Prnewswire.com article, and I love that Henry Repeating Arms is doing this video. And it’s a safety video too, right? But they’re smart because they have the trick shooter involved. And so it’s like they have the high glossy trick shooter stuff to get you attracted to it because everyone wants to see that. But then like, okay, here are the basics, right? And the basics for firearms are not complicated. No, it’s not.

John: Very simple stuff.

Wade: If I can understand universal. Yeah, exactly.

John: Applies to every gun no matter the brand. Doesn’t matter if it’s handgun, shotgun, rifle. It’s all the same.

Wade: Excellent. Well, good. So we’re in agreement. We’re in agreement on that. We haven’t had a disagreement yet, so I think that’s good. I think that’s good. All right. What else caught your eye this week?

John: It’s another one from Technavio and America’s hunting equipment market by End-User and products forecast analysis. And it as well is has a couple of slight dips.

Wade: You flight nerd. You’re going to the all the math forecasting study stuff. Yeah.

John: I’m not really I.

Wade: Actually what do you mean you’re at you’re at 50% of the articles that are attracting your eye are. I’m really interested in this forecast and analysis of the next five years.

John: Touche. And it’s kind of a, um, parallels the ammunition one. It does have a couple of very slight peak or valleys, but that was actually in 2020 and 2021. And if memory serves correct, some sort of insanity occurred in that time frame that may have kept people away from areas. I don’t know some something about governments closing off public areas I don’t.

Wade: Remember I don’t remember. You’re making that up. It’s a psyop. You’re making that up.

John: Yeah, exactly. So it’s not growing at quite the same clip as ammunition. Probably because there’s a lot of people hoarding ammunition that are never going to hunt anything. And that’s totally fine. To what the to what we were talking about hunting when you especially if you like, ever read like McMurtry? I love his work. He paints a very bleak picture of the American West in the 1800s. And it’s like hunting is this super huge industry in the United States now. And actually talked about this with my wife. The other a couple nights ago, she was making soup, this giant thing of chicken soup. And she’s like, God, it was like 50 bucks for all this stuff because we have eight people in the household. And she’s like, well, talking about making your own stocks, I’m like, honey, in the 1850s, if there would have been chicken stock available at the store, they would have bought it. They did it by hand because they didn’t have a choice. Right? I actually just finished a book about the real Yellowstone. Not the stupid show, but the how Yellowstone began and everyone was carrying because they were hunting, because grizzlies would try to eat them, because Indian tribes would try to scalp them. They had to have it. So that was a very European thing for hunting to be a an upper caste sort of thing with the fox.

Wade: The fox and the bugle. Right? Yeah. And they’re the hounds, like their suit coat.

John: Their waistcoats and their frocks on whatever.

Wade: That’s a big reason why we kick their butt during the conflict or whatever. I don’t remember some something happened that in the beginning of the country. Yeah.

John: So yeah, American hunting in the western states, which was like everything west of Kentucky. It was because you had to, not because it was sport. So we are definitely a more privileged country now in the positive light. But I still like to see it grow, because every time I drive and a deer tries to kamikaze my car, I appreciate someone taking them off the road.

Wade: I had a deer I was in when I was in LA. There’s this over by the Hollywood Bowl. I don’t know if you’re familiar with LA, but there’s this off road and there’s this very high, like, almost like a cliff. Right? And someone hit a deer because there are actually deer in LA, right. And, and there’s a mountain lion or two that used to come across or whatever. But this deer, they pinwheel this deer. And I was driving my I had a Ford F-150 at the time and, and it was literally like a movie. It was pinwheeling in the air in all, four of its legs were out, and it was like a throwing, ninja throwing star coming towards my truck. And literally like, there’s nowhere I could go because I’m in kind of deep traffic in LA. And I was just like, you just don’t see that every day. So I could have used some hunting in California to take care of that deer. Anyways, that’s that has nothing to do with what we’re talking about. But back to the hunting article. The one bad thing about hunting, I think in terms of or one bad thing about YouTube now, is that you will get these people that take hunting the wrong way, and they put these videos of them doing these things that I think a true hunter wouldn’t do. And then those are the videos that get a million views. And people who think that hunting is all about death. And it’s exactly the opposite for in terms of like duck hunting, for example, the whole point of duck hunting is not just the point where you pull the trigger on the gun and shoot at a duck. That is actually the least important thing of duck, in my opinion of duck hunting.

Wade: It is the getting up early. If you’re going with someone like walking to where you’re going to go, are you going to sit in the blind? Right? Like putting out all the decoys. You’re in nature, you’re just. And then it’s all the anticipation and just sitting in silence and the skill part of it. And so that’s the part of hunting that I think that people that don’t do hunting don’t understand that there is a craft to it, and there’s a connection to nature, to it, and it’s about life. Like it’s not hunting if you don’t eat it. That’s what I feel personally. Now, I may offend some people or whatever, but if you’re gonna hunt it, you got to eat it. And that’s if it’s not, then it’s trophy hunting. And I’m not a big fan of trophy hunting. And if you’re a trophy hunter and you’re listening to this, you’re not going to convince me, but that’s fine. Like we’ll lose the trophy hunter audience. I don’t know how big that audience is, right? And that’s great, but they can do what they want with that. But that’s not the type of hunting. I think that I guess it has some of the craft part of it too. But for me it’s like the connection is the eating of it. Right? So yes. And that’s why I like like you said, like I like seeing that the hunting market is growing and that and also too for kids that teaches them outdoor skills and to be comfortable in nature. And you don’t you’re not on a screen. Yeah. You know what I mean. And so I think it’s a pretty healthy alternative.

John: What I would love to see and this kind of goes along, it doesn’t go along with the mathy side of this. Actually, it was on Sunday. I was going to go to a deer processing clinic where they’re actually it was actually going to go through the whole process of butchering your own deer. They had a deer that was harvested. It was an indigenous hunt. There’s there are a few tribes around here. And they were actually it was an indigenous archery hunt, and they were going to process the deer. And unfortunately it was negative ten and all the outlets were like, please don’t go on the roads. I’m like, okay, deal. I’m not going out at nine in the morning when it’s ten degrees below.

Wade: They’ll do this next year. Yeah, but.

John: I would love seeing more of that because one problem as a non hunter or a very failed hunter maybe is what I am is that it’s a very, not a cliquish community, but everyone they learn from their grandpa or they learn from their dad. My dad didn’t hunt, so it’s really hard to get into figuring out what do I do with this deer after I can shoot him? I’m fine with that. What do I do after that? And this kind of goes along with the Henry thing, and I hope that the manufacturers start maybe going in deeper dives, like promoting local butcheries, teaching people how to do this, because that’s another way that people can save a lot of money and actually make their meat and protein more affordable. If you can process your own game. Oh yeah, because you take it to a butcher, it’s still gonna be like 250, 300 bucks to do a deer. And then it’s like, well, that’s not any cheaper than me buying grass fed beef, but if I can, I live in the country I live on 20 acres I can harvest on my land, and I’ve got enough space in my garage to butcher as well. My wife doesn’t like that, but it could happen. So I’d like to see them promote less of the Instagram trophy reels and more of hey, maybe you’re doing this because you actually want to have your own protein that is affordable. We’re going to partner with these butchers and you can learn. I would love to see that to where it’s more widely accessible.

Wade: Well, it’s like surfing, right? Like it’s really hard to break into surfing because it’s a very clicky. And if you’re not a local, even if you start like take a class to learn to surf or whatever you look down upon sometimes by the local surfers in LA or Southern California or whatever. But, you know, I saw the movie Point Break. That’s how I envision it. Maybe that’s wrong, right?

John: I think it’s exactly dead on. Right.

Wade: Exactly. But the hunting thing, I think my experience has been like you said, is it’s not so much the clickiness part of it as it’s, there’s but there’s not as much opportunity to learn and also to it’s like so every year when I would go to my cousin’s house, there would always be a deer hanging in the garage at some point during the year. Right? It would just be this gutted deer in the garage. And that was the most natural thing in the world. Like it didn’t gross me out. It didn’t think that was weird. And they go. The deer that hang in the garage, and then it wouldn’t be there suddenly, and we’d have a lot of delicious venison. Right. But I’ve never got into deer hunting. And actually, it’s one thing is that my firearms instructor, he has a farm. He has same thing. He has deer. I’m just going to this, not this year, but next year. I’m just going to pay him. It’s gonna be like, just run me. What do I need to pay you for? To run me through all that? But if you don’t have access to something like that, it’s difficult to be able to get into it.

Wade: So for me, for bird hunting is easy. It’s like fishing, right? So yeah, but actually we start to get to the bigger game. I agree with you is that. But there are options I think, to definitely get in there. And I think hunting is a positive for all way around. And so it’s cool to see on this Technavio article that that it’s trending also in the right direction. And that’s why I think it’s important for us to look at these types of things, because if we look at the fear porn on the news, it’s like they’re coming for your guns. And not to say that they’re not trying to, but there is good news out there. There is. And I think when I go over things like this and I see, okay, ammunition is purchasing is increasing, hunting is increasing, there’s a lot of movement towards educating the youth and keeping them safe. I think that’s extremely positive for the future. And I think it’s I don’t want to be black pilled on everything. I want to be like, okay, like we can pull through this time. And I think a strong gun community and with our children is is one way to do that.

John: I totally agree, and there’s a lot to be hopeful for. And the purpose of media, whether it’s social or whether whether it’s the M5M, is to elicit fear. That’s how they operate, but it’s not out there if you’ll just turn it off. My 13 year old daughter should be 14 this summer. She actually hates screens because she was baking bread by hand Amish bread the other day and I said, you should start a YouTube channel. And she’s like, I don’t want to be on a screen. I was like, and that’s a good thing. And she actually told me she wanted to go to the deer clinic, and she wants to learn how to raise and butcher goats and sew and stuff. And I’m like, then I think there’s a lot of hope. And it’s like, I am not some super trad or anything like that, but I think there is hope if you look for it, and that probably will give them the chance to detox from screens and and explore things. I think actually will find a lot of resentment from our kids. In people our age and even older than us, who are hopeless addicts. And I’m not talking about using it for good, like actually creating a wealth, an empire of wealth around it, but just wasting time. If we’ll give them the opportunity, they’ll actually revolt, and they’ll want to return to return with a V, and they’ll want to return to more traditional ways, though, and especially if we’re willing to provide them the tools. Yeah. I was like, what do you mean? A good sewing machine is $800? What? But yet there it is, right next to me. So yeah, but if we’ll provide them the tools, I think a lot of them would rather. Maybe they’re young and they have a wisdom in their youth of wanting a more analog lifestyle, and I totally respect that. And if we’re willing to give that to them and turn off the fear porn, I think there’s a lot of hope.

Wade: Well, and I totally agree with that. And I think it’s a lot like church, right? Like the two things that my parents did for me was like, they had guns, brought me up a little bit of guns and hunting and that culture. And they also took me to church every week. So even if you fall away from it, it’s always a place that you can return to, right? Totally. I didn’t have anything to do with guns for a very long time in my life. But then when I was like, oh, it’s time for me to do that, it was a very easy return because when I was a kid, it was just part of the culture. Same for church. If you look at it that way, it doesn’t matter if it doesn’t take like, oh, okay, well, they may have a safe harbor to return to when they’re older. So it’s a net positive no matter what, even if they don’t get into it or not, because it’ll always be there for them. So I agree with you on that. And I think that’s a great that’s a great take. Well dude, we’re out of time. But man I had a really good time talking to you. I can’t wait to do the next one. And we’re going to do at least 1 or 2 of these a month. And so I appreciate you. Thanks for coming on today.

John: Yeah. No problem.

Wade: All right. We’ll talk soon. You’ve been listening to the Tactical Business Show by TacticalPay.com. Join us again next episode as we explore what it takes to be a business success in the firearms industry.